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Enough of this bull. Get your modbomb script here. (Diaries)

By William Scott Lockwood
Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 12:42:37 AM EST

William Scott Lockwood's Diary

Enough is enough. I thought for a while that this might be a site with some genuine discussion. I was really enjoying it for a while. I tried to participate and I tried to play by your rules, but from the very start a vocal minority of troublemakers have seen fit to try to silence my clique-contrary views. I made myself a target by trying to defend Catholicism on here which basically gets you branded as a thoughtcriminal and after I spent three days writting two very good articles on the subject they both got voted down by the clique who thinks they control the content of this site.

 


As if having my articles blasted away by sheep weren't bad enough, every time I posted a comment I found a littany of pretentious people voting me down to 1 or 0 just for trying to express my opinion. They declared mod-war on me first. I fought back like a man by voting them down and registering a second account to rate myself back up, but I was only one voice trying to speak out against a one-sided clique with cult mentality, so of course they continued to destroy my mojo unchecked just like certain idiots try to destroy my karma on Slashdot with abuse.

After putting up with months of ratings abuse on Kuro5hin, the shit finally hit the fan when you people started writing scripts to do your censorship for you. Rather than deal with what I had to say you wasted hours of your lives trying to silence me.

I wasn't going to take this shit from self-righteous fuckers, so I acquired my own Scoop ratings script -- and a better one than they had, too. You have to understand how I'm pissed off after all this abuse, so I went through and made a list of everyone who had rated me badly which included site owner Rusty, and I used the script to hit them with 1s so they could see what it felt like.

So like a true BOFH, Rusty (who I'd always wanted to consider a friend and a fellow webmaster) fucked with my Kuro5hin accounts to the point where I can't use them, and when I tried to create new accounts those got locked too. So basically I'm barred from K5 because people attacked ME and I tried to defend myself somehow. I created this last account (which will probably get banned too) to tell my story and speak up for myself. I'm not posting this to get sympathy but to get one final chance to say fuck you.

I tried to find Rusty on IRC but he didn't give enough of a damn to even talk to me so I talked to Hurstdog instead. I told Hurstdog that if I didn't get to personally speak to Rusty about restoring my accounts, I'd release the modbombing script to the public and let the site go to hell until Rusty fixes the broken ratings system. I heard through a third party that you were "too busy" to address my complaint.

So here we are. I made my demands, and they weren't met. I always thought Rusty was cool (although I have it on good authority that he and a certain Slashdot editor were involved in the massive crapflooding of my site a few months back), and I'm sorry I used the script to vote you down, but the way you reacted was a serious power-trip and totally unfair; instead of fixing his broken website, he abused me, the victim of it.

So, Rusty, fuck you. Hurstdog, fuck you. Everyone who voted me down, especially Bobsquath, fuck you. Everyone else on this site except for my friends who backed me up (you know who you are), fuck you.

As if this weren't enough in my life, I'm being harassed on my website, it's being hit again with more Olsen crapfloods. I've received threatening and insulting anonymous e-mails from a Sneakemail address, idiots are spreading my home phone number around the Internet, and in short I'm being treated like shit by the entire world just for being an individual. I'm nearly in tears over this and I've started to question just what the point of it all is. To my friends, thanks for everything, and to anybody who hasn't gotten the message yet, fuck you.

This diary covers many of the things I covered in a GiZ post earlier today, but it was written for a different audience so I added some things and left out others. For those who want to see what I had to say to my real friends, read the post here (ignore the crapflood; I'm trying to clean it up.)

And now the moment you've all been waiting for...

You'll need the following PHP library files which you should be able to find anywhere, but e-mail me if you can't.

PEAR.php PEAR2.php Socket.php http.php

Note: I modified this script to moderate only a user's 14 most recent comments because beyond 14, comment ratings count very little for mojo. If you want to modbomb all out, it's easy to change it back.

<?php
require_once "http.php";
$browser = new Net_HTTP;
$offset = 0;
if (!$argv[1] || !$argv[2] || !$argv[3]) die("Please start as follows: php kuro5hite.php <victim> <account> <password> [score]");
$score = $argv[4] ? $argv[4] : 1;
define("SCORE", $score);
$victim = urldecode($argv[1]);
define("USER", urldecode($argv[2]));
define("PASSWORD", urldecode($argv[3]));
$browser->query("POST", "http://www.kuro5hin.org/", array(uname => USER, pass => PASSWORD, login => "Login"));
$session = $browser->cookie["k5-new_session"];

//do {
$page = $browser->query("GET", "http://www.kuro5hin.org/", array(op => "search", offset => $offset, old_count => 50, "next" => $next, "count" => "50", type => "comment_by", "string" => $victim), array(session => $session));
$pattern = '|<A HREF="/comments/(\d+/\d+/\d+/\d+/\d+)/(\d+)#\d+">[^<]*</A></B>|';
preg_match_all($pattern, $page, $matches);
for ($c = 0; $matches[1][$c]; $c++) {
$browser->query("POST", "http://www.kuro5hin.org/", array(sid => $matches[1][$c], op => "comments", "pid" => 0, "rating_" . $matches[2][$c] => SCORE, rate => "Rate All"), array("k5-new_session" => $session));
if ($c > 13) break;
}
// if ($next) $offset += 50;
// $next = "Next Page >>";
//} while (strstr($page, '<INPUT TYPE="submit" NAME="next" VALUE="Next Page >>">'));

?>

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(42 comments, 4 new)

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Enough of this bull. Get your modbomb script here. | 33 comments (33 topical, editorial, 0 pending) | Post A Comment | Edit Story
Just a messenger (none / 0) (#30)
by finkployd on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 09:20:57 AM EST
(mxe20@CANNEDHAM.psu.edu) http://www.personal.psu.edu/mxe20

I personally know neither Vladinator nor Rusty. </disclaimer>

Vladinator claims (in #kuro5hin) that this is not his posting, but an imposter.

<Vladinator> I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THIS IS, USING MY NAME, BUT IT'S NOT MY ACCOUNT

<Vladinator> That's the thing - much of it is accurate - how the hell could this person know I spoke to Hurstdog? WHom I would NEVER tell to F-OFf.

<Vladinator> Could SOMEONE please post a denial in that diary entry for me?

finkployd
Sig: (This will get posted after your comments)
[ Reply to This | ]
 
Vlad counters (none / 0) (#29)
by mikael_j on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 09:20:07 AM EST
(mikael.jacobsonMEEPT@MEEPThome.se)

Cut and paste from #k5:
[15:17] <Vladinator> I'd like it to say that I didn't post that
[15:17] <Vladinator> I'd like it to also say how freaked out I am by it,
[15:17] <Vladinator> And that I wish I could respond,
[15:18] <Vladinator> But I can't cause I'm locked out.


MS-DOS isn't an OS. It's a program loader with a collection of memory resident bios extensions. And only a few of those. - Anonymous Coward
[ Reply to This | ]
glad to know.. (none / 0) (#32)
by hurstdog on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 12:22:20 PM EST
(hurstdog (at) kuro5hin (dot) org) http://hurstdog.org

That this wasn't vlad. I didn't think he'd be the type to cuss at me like that. Regarding who it is, we have an idea, and some evidence, but we're not going to pursue it I don't think. Its not worth the effort. In man hours the whole modstorming fiasco has already cost k5 about $3000-$5000. Time that we could be adding features, but we end up cleaning up after people and adding idiot-wipe buttons.

Vlad, there isn't much I can say that isn't already somewhere else, but I think you've been the brunt of an impossibly rude joke. I think people do things to get a reaction, and because you give reactions easily, they feel the need to bother you. As others have said, create another account, with no relation to your current ones, and start fresh on kuro5hin. Its always good to have a different viewpoint, which you have been bringing. If your subnet is banned, or if you don't have another email account, let me know I'll get you fixed up.

And most of all, don't take what people say on the internet too seriously. I've run around my house cussing and ranting about people being jackasses on this site and others before, and it does no good. Now, its turned to sympathy for them, its not worth my time to be angry about it.

-hurstdog
There's nothing like a room full of stupid people who agree with you to convince you to change your mind.
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
Ah ha! (none / 0) (#31)
by Elendale on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 11:41:24 AM EST

The plot thickens!
I was wondering about that...

-Elendale

When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
Vlad mate (5.00 / 3) (#28)
by streetlawyer on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 05:57:45 AM EST
(johnsaulmontoya@butwithoutthespam.yahoo.com)

I say this not as a friend, because I've never really liked you, but as a fellow human being. The last time you made a post like this, you later told us that you'd been having some problems with depression. I'm not saying this to make fun -- mental illness is one of the few topics I never joke about -- but I think you should consider whether some of your feelings of being alone and persecuted have an easily remediable physical cause. I haven't been following this story and don't intend to, but please remember that there are no medals handed out for suffering unnecessarily.

-- "the thing I can't stand about kuro5hin is those wankers who quote each other in their signatures" -- TheReverend.
[ Reply to This | ]
 
Ahem. (5.00 / 2) (#27)
by Signal 11 on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 03:26:50 AM EST
(signal11@mediaone.net?Subject=kuro5hin comment) http://people.mn.mediaone.net/bojay/

I happen to have spoken to inoshiro on the matter, since I noticed a huge string of random usernames and 1 ratings. They're aware of it, they're pissed about it, and they were at the time working to fix the problem.

Sadly, you went and fucked it up before they had a chance to impliment the aforementioned changes. Oh well.

For the record, automatic account creation is soon to be dead - you'll need to be a human, not a script, to create an account here.

Horray to vlad, may your patience extend for miles.


--
Society needs therapy. It's having
trouble accepting itself.
[ Reply to This | ]
 
Hi Vlad... (4.83 / 6) (#16)
by Carnage4Life on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:56:54 AM EST
http://www.25hoursaday.com

I made myself a target by trying to defend Catholicism on here which basically gets you branded as a thoughtcriminal and after I spent three days writting two very good articles on the subject they both got voted down by the clique who thinks they control the content of this site.

The users of this site control the content of this site. Although I'm Catholic by birth, have been through cathecism classes and have a particularly devout mother even I realized that your article was offtopic for kuro5hin and contained way too much detail to be of any interest to any that aren't diligent scholars of religous material. If your article had been posted to one of the alt.religion.* hierarchy of groups it would have been better received instead getting the responses you got posting on a site where tech geeks argue about politics.

As if having my articles blasted away by sheep weren't bad enough, every time I posted a comment I found a littany of pretentious people voting me down to 1 or 0 just for trying to express my opinion. They declared mod-war on me first. I fought back like a man by voting them down and registering a second account to rate myself back up, but I was only one voice trying to speak out against a one-sided clique with cult mentality, so of course they continued to destroy my mojo unchecked just like certain idiots try to destroy my karma on Slashdot with abuse.

Treating rating posts as a "war" and talking about "fighting like a man" in reference to rating comments by people you don't like to 1 or 0 is an indicator of an unhealthy lack of perspective. I suggest spending time away from online fora because it seems you take weblogs a tad bit to seriously which definitely is not healthy. Sincerely, I also suggest that you talk to someone professionally about your fixation with weblogs, how you desperately try to fit into their social structures and how violently you react when you don't fit in. The fact that you actually paid someone to write a modstorm script is also particularly telling in that it reveals a lot about how seriously you take participating in online fora.

So like a true BOFH, Rusty (who I'd always wanted to consider a friend and a fellow webmaster) fucked with my Kuro5hin accounts to the point where I can't use them, and when I tried to create new accounts those got locked too. So basically I'm barred from K5 because people attacked ME and I tried to defend myself somehow. I created this last account (which will probably get banned too) to tell my story and speak up for myself. I'm not posting this to get sympathy but to get one final chance to say fuck you.

You were barred from kuro5hin for abusing the system. Haven been a victim of one of your modstorms I know that they are typically vindictive, unwarranted and excessive. Part of interacting with people especially online is dealing with the fact that not everyone will like you nor will they agree with you, how you deal with this shows exactly how mature and how much of a "man" you are. Rating all their posts to a 1 is not the mature approach.

As if this weren't enough in my life, I'm being harassed on my website, it's being hit again with more Olsen crapfloods. I've received threatening and insulting anonymous e-mails from a Sneakemail address, idiots are spreading my home phone number around the Internet, and in short I'm being treated like shit by the entire world just for being an individual. I'm nearly in tears over this and I've started to question just what the point of it all is. To my friends, thanks for everything, and to anybody who hasn't gotten the message yet, fuck you.

At times like this the inability of the English language to properly convey feelings of sympathy or empathy frustrates me. I feel badly that people are harassing you because of your actions on K5 but the truth is the worse you behave on K5, the worse they will behave. The best you can do is quit posting to K5 and maybe after all this has died down either come back with one of your old accounts or with a completely new account that cuts all ties with the past and starts anew.

Take care.

--
NEW IMPROVED K5 USER INFORMATION PAGE

Click here to find out more about your fellow K5 readers. The server is back online.

[ Reply to This | ]
 
Reality bitchslaps Vladinator/Lockwood. (4.55 / 9) (#13)
by kwsNI on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:48:43 AM EST
(AIM: kwsNI2000) http://web.nmsu.edu/~ashapiro

Time to wake the fuck up. Guess what? Reality is a bitch.

Reading this, I've realized that you have a problem that is becoming way too fucking common. I've noticed lately that people don't seem to realize that life has consequences. Well guess what, every thing you do changes your life forever. Remember that person you disagreed with on your site and modded down unfairly a year ago? No? Well maybe he does.

You claim to present an alternate view, but have you ever considered that the style you deliver it in is often delivered in such an inflamitory style that your message is lost in your flaming words? Have you ever realized that you've insulted so many people that maybe they don't want to listen to you or even that they feel justified in getting to hurt your feelings back?

I mean, boo fucking hoo. You got modstormed so you modstormed others - going so far as to modstorm the site's admins. What did you really think they would do? Congratulate you for showing them how bad the problem is? Hell no - in reality you should have known they'd lock your account down. After all, isn't that what you wanted done to the people who did that to you?

You talk about being voted down by cliques that think they control this site - well if you were voted down, they obviously do control this site. If you have a better way of running a site, why do you feel the need to try to bring this site down?

As for my personal opinion of you, I've always felt that I've rated your comments on their merit. You're smart sometimes - you raise some excellent points and if you can do it without insulting everyone in the process, I've rated you highly. When you post nothing but shit in my opinion, I've rated that down. If you think that's so bad, then go ahead and turn your mod-script on to me.

I'm not in the crowd asking for your head, just for you to start using it. Create a new account, tone the attitude and the insults down a little and try to join the discussion again. Or, if you really believe that this site is so bad, leave. But whatever you do, realize that every thing you say forms an impression on people and the way they treat you really is based on that perception. You get treated like shit by the entire world because that's how you treat them

kwsNI
[ Reply to This | ]
Ironically (5.00 / 6) (#17)
by rusty on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:58:28 AM EST
(rusty@kuro5hin.org) http://www.kuro5hin.org/

Hell no - in reality you should have known they'd lock your account down. After all, isn't that what you wanted done to the people who did that to you?

Ironically, that's what I spent Monday and Tuesday doing. Locking down multiple accounts of the person who was screwing with Vlad. And I sent him an email asking nicely that he consider what he was doing before he started retaliating in kind, and that all it would do would be to make more work for me.

But he went ahead and did it anyway, at which point he became part of the problem.

By the way, there's some evidence that this diary isn't even by Vlad. Whether it is or not doesn't really matter, because it is what he's been saying everywhere else. Anyway, it reads awfully like him. So, whatever. The statements are all true.

--
"Imagine how boring the world would be if all comment systems were as flawless as K5s?" --Rob Malda
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
Potty Mouth (3.08 / 12) (#8)
by duxup on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:25:26 AM EST
(privacy@real.com (see homepage)) http://8421.net



[ Reply to This | ]
duxup, you rock. [n/t] (none / 0) (#33)
by theantix on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 12:34:10 PM EST
((my nick) @shaw.ca) http://www.ryanthiessen.com/



"it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty" -- Thomas Henry Huxley
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
on posted libraries... (5.00 / 9) (#7)
by hurstdog on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:22:48 AM EST
(hurstdog (at) kuro5hin (dot) org) http://hurstdog.org

A little earlier, the person that wrote this diary posted the libraries that are needed to make this mod bomb script run. I have since deleted this post, and will do so to any that follow. Not beause we're scared of the ramifications of multiple people getting the script. On the contrary, we already have the ability to remove all of a users' ratings and set that user to Anonymous status in one click.

The post was removed at the request of the library author. The person that wrote this diary did not have the permission of the author to release the author's libaries, so I deleted it when he asked. K5 does not traffic in warez.

-hurstdog
There's nothing like a room full of stupid people who agree with you to convince you to change your mind.
[ Reply to This | ]
 
Interesting (4.40 / 5) (#6)
by Elendale on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:20:45 AM EST

You know, i don't even care about my mojo or how my comments get rated- excepting that it causes other people hassle in having innaccurate ratings (not saying i'm Mr. Perfect Poster, half the stuff i write is complete crap IMHO) and when stuff starts getting hit with 0s it gets annoying. Go ahead, take that as an excuse to hit me with 1s if it makes you feel better. I guess i can understand being irritated, but at the same time this whole modstorming debacle seems a little silly to me.

-Elendale

When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.
[ Reply to This | ]
 
Are you either the carroll or herbert accounts? (4.83 / 6) (#5)
by la princesa on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:20:33 AM EST
http://torduange.port5.com

I don't know why I got hit in the whole modstorm thing by those accounts, but if you're either set and did it because I rated you 1 or 2 for some comment of yours, that is just very very small kid of you. I mean, I'll be trusted again in a few days/weeks, but you could end up not able to participate on this site ever again, and all because you were mad at some people not voting your stories up or rating your comments down.

I've had three submissions voted down, and that doesn't mean k5 is out to get me or that it's some conspiracy to stifle my voice. It just means what I submitted wasn't what voters wanted to read. And you know what? That happens to MOST submissions. A fair amount of stuff gets through, but most submissions get nuked, and the result is articles one might want to read on the site. Sometimes a person will write something and put a lot of effort into it and it still gets voted down. That may suck, but it's not a plot against anyone. I mean jesus, why write the script or 'acquire' it to punish people for speaking THEIR minds? Are only you allowed to have an opinion about something and if others disagree, they deserve to be script-modded down? It's not your site, you don't own it, and you should learn to consider others' views the way that yours were considered. So what if your stories were rejected? Write others; eventually something will make it through.

While I'm glad the modstorm stuff is the worst that happened to the site, because it could have been much worse, it still was very pointless and wasted the time of the site admins. That is terribly rude of you, who expects others to accept your views and beliefs for some reason but who cannot be considerate of other peoples' time and efforts to maintain this place you were allowed to submit content to in the first place. It's so damn selfish and snotty of you. Anyway, this really is for you and for the other person or people who participated in the modfest of the last couple days. It's tacky to complain about how no one loves your brilliant writing and nuked it in the queue and then clog the site with false moderation which the admins end up having to correct. Where is the simple courtesy for others and tolerance of opposing views? I'll stop now because the underlying (ir)rationale behind the behavior irks me far more than the actual modstorming.

[ Reply to This | ]
 
not unsympathetic (4.37 / 8) (#4)
by crayz on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:19:13 AM EST
(crayz@SPAM.mac.com) http://crayz.dyndns.org

I always keep a little place in my heart for trolls. A lot of people on Slashdot hate them, but personally I think they're hilarious. From the little one-liner ACs making fun of everyone to the doctoral-thesis length trolls there has been some really funny(and intelligent) humor. I always browse at -1.

I never thought much of Vlad as a troll, but I've read a bunch of his comments here and by and large they have been quite good. If there were people pack raping him(e2 term), well he has a right to be pissed. I would be.

The way he responded to it obviously wasn't all that great, but I still think he was a real contributor here. His posts about Catholicism especially were excellent. I wish I'd seen all the story submissions about it, because those probably were too.

At this point I there may not be much that can be done to stitch things up, but I wish it hadn't come to this.

[ Reply to This | ]
Oops (4.33 / 3) (#9)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:27:47 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

I didn't mean to 0-rate this (quite legitimate) comment (which I happen to agree with). This CID was normally a big-ass code spam. I've undone the rating. No hard feelings, I hope. :)
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
hehe (4.33 / 3) (#11)
by crayz on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:35:07 AM EST
(crayz@SPAM.mac.com) http://crayz.dyndns.org

I saw that it was rated down in the toilet, so I downloaded this perl script, entered your name in, and...

:D

but nah, I saw it rated down and clicked on the rating thing to see who'd done it and it was already back up. it's cool. I've done it before too

[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
Well... (5.00 / 2) (#20)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:13:13 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

This was different in that I really did mean to rate comment 4 down to 0, since it was fucking with the formatting of the page (being a MOTHERFUCKING HUGE chunk of PHP code). Unfortunately, comment 4 got deleted, and was replaced by yours. :) Either there's a scoop bug which causes nuked comments to not lose their rating, or the nuke happened before the rating did; in either case, Schrödinger would probably have something to say regarding the well-orderedness of events on the web. (Einstein would too, but only if the server were moving close to the speed of light in someone's relativistic frame, which it probably is, but that gets into the parts of quantum philosophy which Einstein had major philosophical issues with.)

Damnit, why can't I funnel my chattiness into my novel tonight?
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
Wow (4.00 / 8) (#3)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:03:52 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

Sorry to hear about all the shit which has happened to you. I don't think you should blame everyone on Kuro5hin, though. Like, I've never even seen your posts or diary before, so it's not like I could be one of the people contributing to the moderation issues. I mostly participate in just the diares, though, and don't pay much attention to the actual stories (and very rarely even read the comments on them).

For what it's worth, I understand what you're going through, and when I got burned out on /. I did a very similar thing (I wrote an auto-crapflood script in nothing but sh, tr and sed, crapflooded on a few stories, and released the source). A lot of people got mad at me, and apparently I'm still notorious for having done it (mostly since I specifically boosted two completely unremarkable stories to the top positions of the /. Hall Of Fame), but I still don't feel bad about having done it. I felt that many problems with /. (both code and attitude) had to be drawn to attention, and I feel that the way that people handled it was very poor (for example, some /. admin "bitchslapped" all of the comments posted into active stories from my subnet, meaning that both a bunch of my legitimate comments and the comments made by my fellow NMSU students were all hidden). So the problems didn't get fixed, and so I don't feel at all bad about it.

I don't feel bad about you doing this, either. It draws attention to some very real problems with the site, and it finally gives Rusty some motivation to code in some (at least temporary) technological fixes to societal problems. It also gives people a chance to look at themselves and self-evaluate. Maybe they'll see that they're a part of the problem, and change their ways. I wouldn't bet on it, though.

Good luck, in any case. I'd say "God be with you," but I'm an atheist. :)
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Reply to This | ]
Oh wait (4.71 / 7) (#12)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:40:13 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

I get it, you're Vlad posting under another account. So obviously you already know about my /. goings-on. :)

Vlad, I've always liked your posts in general. I voted for your religion stories, though I think the reason they got dumped was because they were long-winded and didn't really bring anything new to the table. But lately you've been a bit of an ass. Frankly, I think you brought a lot of this crap on yourself; you made the modstorm wars an issue because you let yourself get involved in them. But regardless, I do support your release of the modstorm code and the bringing of attention to peoples' attitudes. It looks like as I was writing that comment, Rusty did already code some technological stopgap measures (which don't have the horribly deleterous effects of the crude "bitchslap" method on /.), and he obviously cares enough about the site and its attitude to do things The Right Way, eventually. :)

That's not brown-nosing, that's my honest opinion.

I agree with you regarding Adequacy, by the way, though I think it's a fun site if you don't try to take it seriously. Same goes for K5. The problem is that it's hard not to take it seriously, especially when others are (or at least seem to).

Personally, I don't care for the whole soap opera which surrounds AQ, GiZ, and K5. It's stupid and pointless, and I try not to pay attention. All three sites serve their purpose. K5 has "serious" discussion (meaning 'not intended to offend'), GiZ has silly stuff on trolling techniques and the means of fucking with people who deserve to be fucked with, and AQ is full of the actual fucking with others. It's an unholy trinity, or something.

I don't care for all the infighting and "your site is crap!" stuff that goes on around here. Frankly, I try to ignore any of your and Perdida's and bc's and JCB's and so on's diaries which mention any of the soap-ish aspects of what's going on.

But still, thank you for at least voicing your opinion. That's important, and I do feel sorry that you speaking about your own opinion instead of the supposed "wanK5est" partyline (which, IMO, doesn't exist, though there are definitely a few strong and vocal polarized factions) got you booed and pariahed. And I'm still glad for what you did, since it still at least gives people some motivation to look at themselves in a critical light. It might not cause Massive Sweeping Changes in outlook, but it's a start, at least.

I think K5 needs more people like you (meaning actual individuals, not meaning people with the same opinions and points of view), honestly, and it's a shame that others have succeeded in driving you away. I'm sorry to see you go.
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
K5 is not meant to be taken seriously (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by Elendale on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:53:11 AM EST

IMHO, of course. Lately, i've been falling victim to this whole "taking it to seriously" bit. Not that i've been getting abused in ratings, though i've seen the occassional one or two in completely random places, but rather trying to deal with the people here. K5 is the proud home of, as my Ethics prof put it earlier today, "The kind of people who sit around and use libertarianism to play head games." Of course, i'm taking it out of context: i assume he doesn't read K5- though i suppose if he did it would explain his comment :)
But then i realized that my blood pressure was shooting up whenever i loaded up K5 (and just the diaries at that!) so i chilled. Actually, it wasn't entirely my doing. I found a new webcomic that i think everyone here should read. Go on, the archives arent' long ;) I'll probably end up posting that comic as a diary some time soon anyway. It's generally been pretty uptight around here lately.

What's the point? I don't think i have one. Other than an AOL styled "METOO" but with larger words.

-Elendale (Speaking of site modifications- though i know you're busy and all, rusty- any progress on getting the comment preview to be more of a round trip, specifically in regard to posting links?)

When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
Ozy and Millie (5.00 / 2) (#18)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:04:11 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

O&M is hardly a new webcomic; it's been around for a few years, in fact. But yes, I do love it quite a bit; it's one of my daily reads. It'd be nice if everyone could understand Ozy's (and therefore the cartoonist's) philosophy. Unfortunately, it's hard to keep that mindset at all times.

Actually, I've figured out a way to avoid getting really pissed at everyone around me when everyone's acting like a complete fucktard. Hum a happy little tune. It's one thing to understand that what other people are doing doesn't matter, but it's another to be able to actually put them out of your mind. Humming a happy little tune works very well for that.
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
How did i guess? (5.00 / 2) (#23)
by Elendale on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:23:09 AM EST

I figured you had already known about O&M. I guess it wasn't so much for your benefit as others :) Like i said, i've been meaning to plug it for a little while now and it just keeps popping up in my head.

As far as the philosophy goes: i'm quite impressed. It's probably the best rendering of zen into webcomic format that i've ever seen, which (i must admit) isn't as impressive as would be nice though this isn't exactly a remark on O&M's philosophy so much as a few other comics. Or video games for that matter. Video game designers with no knowledge of a subject should avoid putting it into the game. Kinda like Hollywood. But that particular train of thought is only going to get more vicious.

About your remark above (on not writing what you're supposed to): I know it too well. I have ~3 papers to finish and two bigass research papers. I have about three weeks to finish them. Instead of working on them i'm posting here why exactly again?

-Elendale (Oh well, could be worse!)

When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
Technically... (5.00 / 2) (#25)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:31:10 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

I'm not supposed to be writing anything (my novel is just ego-wank for NaNoWriMo). I'm supposed to be grading. (Note the lack of grades for homework 4. Note the due date for it from the assignment link on its header row. Note also the fact I still haven't gotten around to fixing the table so that it looks right on modern browsers instead of just netscape 4, which surprised the hell out of me since newer browsers normally look fine on NS4-optimized pages even though the converse is definitely not true).

I'm also behind on my research, but I feel that since I completely rewrote my renderer a month and a half ago, I've paid my dues this semester, even though that's not technically my research project. :) (The problem is that I don't have a research project yet. I'm supposed to be researching what I want to research.)

What the fuck do video games have to do with anything? :)
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
Video games, grading, and less! (5.00 / 3) (#26)
by Elendale on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:38:24 AM EST

Video games (and a touch of anime, now that i think about it) tend to have chunks of bad philosophy stuck in "because it sounds cool". Either that or the translators didn't bother to keep the meaning, assuming the stupid 'mericans wouldn't notice. I'd pull up an example, but you can trust my mind to refuse to do anything productive for me...

There is an advantage to being behind in grading as opposed to writing. On the other hand, i'm pretty much good to go for this semester as long as i get those cursed papers done and in- which surprises me a bit considering i basically lost a month of school due to pneumonia and recovery from it. Oh well.

-Elendale (speaking of which, i should get to bed so i can wake up in time for class tomorrow...)

When free speech is outlawed, only criminals will complain.
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
I dont get it (4.28 / 7) (#10)
by coryking on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:30:38 AM EST
(reply@to.message.com) http://www.coryking.com

Why would you be apologetic to anybody who writes stupid shit like the above? What this person did highlights their own immaturaty.

Dont expect to crap/mod/story/whatever flood a site and expect the admins to be "cool" with it. It's not "cool" to do that, it's a pain in the ass for the admins to clean up (not to mention to possible loss of face), it makes the flooder look like an idiot, and it's an inmature way of dealing with your problems. It's just like people who hack systems that are not theirs and when they get busted, claim they where doing it to benifit society somehow ("it's to highlight all the security flaws"). Bah.. there are better, more productive ways of getting your point across.

In further reflection (after the tech. difficulties), yes, there are times for "disobedance", but still, you need to take responsbility for your actions. You can't just mod-storm "for a reason", and then whine that the admins dont like you. Isn't that the point?

[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
You misunderstand (4.50 / 8) (#14)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 01:50:53 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

I didn't say I expected rusty to be "cool" with it. I said I expected rusty to implement things to fix it.

I also didn't say that he should disavow his responsibility, just as I don't disavow my responsibility for the massive /. crapflooding I did. However, I have seen many people try to bring the problems to the attention of others only to be ignored, just as when I was on /. I saw many people try to bring the problems to the attention of others only to be ignored. There's a point at which you have to stop talking about a problem and start demonstrating it.

He gave his reasons for modstorming K5, just as I gave my reasons for crapflooding /.. In the case of my actions on /., the admins put in some really crufty and harmful kludges to try to deal with things, and never really got the point, while in the case of Vlad's actions on K5, the admins have already put in some non-harmful short-term fixes and are working on long-term approaches to fixing the problem. Hopefully rusty et al will come up with a decent fix which will also take away the incentive for modstorming, and people in general will start to realize that non-0 ratings don't matter anyway and that it's all just a silly game.

The thing I'd like to see rusty do is figure out some better metric for doling out trusted status, meaning figuring out some better way of "rating" comments. Maybe he should drop the default display of comment ratings (and have it show only "rated 15 times" or whatever), and drop the ability to sort based on ratings; that way people won't see it as being as big a deal, less rating will happen overall, and those who have decent long-term posting histories will tend to be the ones with trusted status.

I'd also like to see him implement the "rating rate throttles" I described in a recent meta story. That would stop conventional modstorming dead in its tracks. Keeping the "undo ratings" function would then allow for manual intervention in the case of trickle attacks.

Rusty is already fixing the system here. I have to give him a lot of credit for that. Like it or not, it was the recent modstorming which caused him to do it - there needs to be an actual problem before the solution gets implemented; why bother stockpiling pesticide if there's no vermin where you live?
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
Misunderstand? (5.00 / 5) (#19)
by Carnage4Life on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:13:07 AM EST
http://www.25hoursaday.com

From what you've written previously on this site I respect your opinion and think you are rather intelligent but this post struck me as rather annoying.

rusty and CmdrTaco are under no obligation to make your web browsing experience as perfect as possible and expecting them to do that then trying to damage their sites when they don't is childish. Whatever system rusty comes up with can be circumvented as long as there exists a way for K5 to accept HTTP POST requests. Slashdot has found this out the hard way and if they have any sense they'll stop bothering with hacking up Slashcode simply to prevent the more common types of trolls, spam and crapfloods.

Frankly, the only way K5 would be 100% free of abuse is if rusty shut the site down, then there wouldn't be any abuse. Heck, if I was rusty I'd shut this site down and get all these whining babies off my back then find a decent job and have more time to spend with my new bride.

--
NEW IMPROVED K5 USER INFORMATION PAGE

Click here to find out more about your fellow K5 readers. The server is back online.

[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
Um, no (4.33 / 3) (#21)
by fluffy grue on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:18:01 AM EST
(magenta at trikuare dot cx) http://trikuare.cx

I didn't say they were under any obligation to make my webbrowsing experience. However, CmdrTaco's solution to the crapflooding problem was certainly sub-optimal; it ended up penalizing a lot of people by hiding their comments even when they had nothing to do with me (except being on the same subnet). I also didn't say that any fix that rusty performs will be Perfect, but rusty's attitude when it comes to trying new things and realizing when there's a problem (both technological and social) has been, on the whole, a hell of a lot better than Taco's. Rusty wants to actually fix the system, Taco just wants to hide its brokenness.

I never, ever even implied that a system can be made 100% free of abuse. You're assuming too much about what I'm saying. Also, have I not made many specific suggestions of things to try?
--
Baby carrots: vegetarian veal

"Red Dwarf is in essence nothing more than a multi-season long 'why did the chicken cross the road' joke." -- trhurler

[ Listen To Music ]
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
Ha Ha (2.27 / 11) (#2)
by coryking on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 12:58:53 AM EST
(reply@to.message.com) http://www.coryking.com

Get a life, anybody who acts like you are obviously has none. You probably sit in your basement all day, have no real friends, eat pizza, drink a shitload of Mountain Dew, write kitty scripts, and wank off to shitty quality JPG's of naked women, never to see the real thing.

fucking creep. As Nielson on the Simpsons might say - "HA HA!!"

[ Reply to This | ]
 
Enjoy (4.35 / 14) (#1)
by rusty on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 12:55:18 AM EST
(rusty@kuro5hin.org) http://www.kuro5hin.org/

In about an hour, it'll be a waste of time. I just finished up the "Undo Ratings" button. So, basically, run your script. Whoever you hit will notice, email me, and I'll remove all ratings from you. It's like they never existed.

By the way, Vlad, read my first email again. You idiot.

--
"Imagine how boring the world would be if all comment systems were as flawless as K5s?" --Rob Malda
[ Reply to This | ]
Question... (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by Nater on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:18:11 AM EST
(inkblot@movealong.org) http://www.movealong.org/

How high does one's mojo have to get in order to have access to this button? 4.96? Higher?


i heard someone suggest that we should help the US, just like they helped us in WWII. By waiting three years, then going over there, flashing our money around, shagging all the women and acting like we owned the place. --Seen in #tron
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
Infinitely High (4.87 / 8) (#24)
by rusty on Thu Nov 15th, 2001 at 02:24:09 AM EST
(rusty@kuro5hin.org) http://www.kuro5hin.org/

Higher than DJBongHit in Amsterdam. :-)

--
"Imagine how boring the world would be if all comment systems were as flawless as K5s?" --Rob Malda
[ Parent | Reply to This | ]
 
Enough of this bull. Get your modbomb script here. | 33 comments (33 topical, editorial, 0 pending) | Post A Comment | Edit Story
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