[ I just can't ] stop whining

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Poll

Votes: 13

[ I just can't ] stop whining

Author:

detikon

Topic:

Diaries

Posted:

Jun 22, 2002

Comments:

According to research company IDC PC makers have done nothing but whine for the last 18 months about slipping computer sales.

Some estimated that companies are likely delaying their upgrade cycles and seeking other cheaper alternatives. This includes increased selling of older computers to companies which refurbished them and sell the to smaller companies and schools. The companies then receive credit towards the purchase of newer systems. In the past many companies would donate many older systems to schools and non-profit organisations in exchange for a nice tax write-off. Some companies even considered open source software (OSS) to extend the life of older systems. Many considered this to be a factor. However, many companies were actually purchasing low-end or mid-level ix86 (ie Pentium based) systems to run OSS.

More diaries by detikon

	Trustworthy Computing !?!
	Attn: Yoshi
	If it ain't broke...break it!
	Microsoft gives Korean developers little cause for worry
	Microsoft [continues to fight a legal challenge in a consistent manner]
	Analysis of The Beast and a friendlier BG?
	What is MS really saying?
	Microsoft bloat and easter eggs?

Thus the blame begins. PC makers like Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Dell and Compaq have tried blaming anyone they could.

They claimed innovation has slowed so interest has dropped. they site contributing factors like Sept 11th, the economy, and even Microsoft. Some even blame the HP-Compaq merger claiming it destabilized the industry.

The drop in sales of home systems are usually attributed to the recording industry's lashing out against Napster (which I can understand to a point), CD Burners, and MP3 players. Even the slow deployment of broadband (which the recording industry has attack as well) could be considered a factor.

Is the public aware of this? Are they aware that shoddy copyright protection could mean music CDs you buy tomorrow won't work on the PC or even CD player you bought just today?

Nope. It's my believe that consumers and businesses have become [slightly] better shoppers. Why pay $1500 for a system from Dell when you can get the same system or slightly better for $700 to $800 from eMachines, MicroTel, or elsewhere? Is it customer service and tech support? While eMachines was rated POOR in the last PC World study and Dell EXCELLENT, is it worth the extra $700? Most of these companies include warranties and tech support for up to one year (you pay extra for more). In my experience if something goes wrong because of faulty equipment, it usually happens in the first 30 days.

Are we tired of paying for a name? Why does Gateway charge you $150 to $200 to upgrade from a system with 256MB of RAM to the same system with 512MB? Why pay that much when a 256MB stick of RAM can cost you as low as $50 at Best Buy? And if your scared to open the box, they'll install it for a small fee.

I'm sure everyone has their own opinion and research to validate it. This just happens to be mine.

	PCs were a fad. (none / 0) (#1)
	by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Jun 22nd, 2002 at 08:10:15 PM PST

	Everyone simply realised that having a computer in the home isn't going to enhance their lives particularly much. Certainly not enough to justify the thousand dollar price tags. Having discovered that the internet doesn't provide a gateway to new and exciting horizons, people have decided that life is best lived away from the machine. There was a time when folk music and flares seemed like they would be with us forever, too.

	Actually, (2.00 / 1) (#2)
	by because it isnt on Sat Jun 22nd, 2002 at 08:19:06 PM PST

	flares are still with us, if you're a kid, a teenager or a goth. Perhaps it's the same with home PCs. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Niche market? (none / 0) (#3)
	by T Reginald Gibbons on Sat Jun 22nd, 2002 at 09:46:47 PM PST

	Absolutely. There will always be nerds, just as there will always be Led Zeppelin fans and yo-yo enthusiasts. I don't think the niche market to which PCs are doomed to retreat will necessarily involve goths, though, despite their antisocial mindset.

	Moron (none / 0) (#5)
	by MattGlover on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 11:42:57 AM PST

	"Everyone simply realized that having a computer in the home isn't going to enhance their lives particularly much"<br> Funny. I could've sworn internet traffic is up several 1000% in the last 5 years.<br> "Certainly not enough to justify the thousand dollar price tags."<br> Are you sure that's the problem? I could've sworn it was because most American homes have access to a semi-up-to-date computer. When they are obsolete, most people get a new one. This happens approximately every 3 years.

	You, Sir, are a genius. (none / 0) (#6)
	by tkatchev on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 12:05:04 PM PST

	I love you. Will you marry me? -- Peace and much love...

	Sorry! (none / 0) (#29)
	by MattGlover on Tue Jun 25th, 2002 at 11:12:40 AM PST

	I'm sorry. I am Catholic.

	ur a loser (none / 0) (#26)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jun 24th, 2002 at 04:25:48 PM PST

	u are a fucking moron. Wtf was with that "is ur son a hacker" article. U don know shit about hacking or computers. ur such a moron those programs aren't for hacking. All of ur info is wrong.

	Are you REALLY that stupid? (none / 0) (#4)
	by MattGlover on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 11:35:41 AM PST

	Dell vs. eMachines. One makes Mid-to-High-End machines used by large-companies, semi-hardcore gamers that are coupled with LARGE amounts of memory and storage, high speed, robust software packages and tech-support better than almost every other computer company making it the best on the market. The other makes low-cost machines for low-budget households. Most of their machines use integrated graphics cards with 16 or 32 mb video cards, 20-30 GB hard drives, 128 mb of ram (which happens to be the minimum for XP), USED COMPONENTS, horrible monitors (did I mention my dell came with a 15'' LCD screen?) and perhaps the crappiest software packages I ever saw. Maybe you should think before you say Dell is worse than eMachines. Perhaps if you took the time to figure out what integrated video is, and what a great computer is and should do, you could write a story without being such an idiot. eMachines makes worse computers than Packard Hell (Which bankrupted in 2000).

	he wasn't saying that (none / 0) (#9)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 03:40:39 PM PST

	eMachines when compared to a well equiped Dell system loses everytime. The article doesn't center around desktop computers nor does it center around high end servers. Most corporation and many home users can get along just fine with an eMachine. Do they need to spend $1000 for a nice system just to get on the Internet, send/receive email, and use MS Word? No. But they want something that is going to last. Take MicroTel for example. You can get a really nice P4 system with 256MB (or 512MB), a nice size HDD, with great audio and video (non-integrated) for up to $500 cheaper than offering from Dell or Gateway. They don't come with a monitor but spend another $150 or $200 plus $199 for XP Home Edition and you still save $100 minimun. If you have a copy of W2K and a license which allows it (ie on-site license) you can install it on that machine. You save even more. These systems are perfect for home/business dekstops or even servers running open source software or W2K server. Many people and businesses are looking more at companies like CDW or those with ads in the back of computer magazines. Since they have in house tech support that's covered. Most include the same warranties and tech/customer support as the other guys. Most people know that if something is going to break because of someone at the factory fucking up it usually does so within the first 30 days. that's true with any electronic equipment.

	Only morbidly obese egotists (none / 0) (#11)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 04:20:36 PM PST

	and microcephalic dwarves regularly refer to themselves in third person. Which derangement of nucleotides best describes you as a person? Don't answer right away, take some time to think through your answers. Hint: the above two possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

	integrated video (none / 0) (#12)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 04:29:35 PM PST

	Not all eMachines use integrated video. Many include an AGP port for you to use or come with a vdeo card. As for Dell's software pakages they suck. I got a 4300s not that long ago and all I got was some office software (not the full Office sweet), an image editor I never use, and game demos. Gateway sucks even worse. It came with MS Word, Encarta, and stripped down anti-virus program that made the computer crawl. Anything else that came with the computer (the didn't require an additional purchase) were software demos and utilities. The utilities weren't really impressive. One example was the Gateway resource monitor. A slightly more colorful and fun resource monitor than that which comes with Windows and uses twice the resources. Oh and why are you so happy about a 15" LCD monitor? They're not that expensive anymore. I mean 15" inches? I would never settle for anything less than a 17-19 inch monitor. A mean for basic server monitoring 15 inches is ok but not for a desktop system. Besides once you experience a Apple Cinema HD 23" flat panel display everything else is just...

	Wake up, detikon. (none / 0) (#14)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 06:13:07 PM PST

	A 15" LCD has a 15" picture. A 17" CRT has a 15" picture. A cheap 15" LCD will run you more than twice as much as a cheap 17" CRT. Do thirty seconds' research before you post again, please.

	I don't think so (none / 0) (#15)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 06:47:44 PM PST

	A 17" CRT monitor has a 16.7" viewing area A good 15" LCD can cost around the same price as a decent 17" CRT monitor. You just have to know where to shop. You can also usually get discount if you purchase more than one.

	don't forget (none / 0) (#17)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 06:53:07 PM PST

	You can usually gtet them even cheaper if you get them through you company. Many times companies will purchase items for employees or will purchase a few extra then sell to the employees who wanted them.

	This is true, but only in fantasy-land. (none / 0) (#19)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 07:11:34 PM PST

	Again, do a bit of research before you post. Sure, if you go out and buy the most expensive 17" CRT you can find, you'll get a viewing area greater than 16" (but less than 17"). On average, however, a 17" CRT has a viewing area under 16". I stand by the assertion that a 17" CRT monitor has a 15" viewing area. I also stand by the uncontested claim that a 15" LCD screen, even the cheapest one, has a viewing area of 15". If an average non-tech company is looking to make money and control costs, they do not put themselves in the position of retailing computer parts (and supporting them) for their employees' home use. A small company discount from dell, compaq, or the like is the best the average employee can hope for. Of course, if you still work for a dot-com era company with no concern for profit margins, things might be different for you, but you pay the price of painfully low job security in exchange for all of that cheap (of free) hardware.

	it actually works (none / 0) (#25)
	by detikon on Mon Jun 24th, 2002 at 12:35:10 AM PST

	Many times the company will purchase an additional system if the employee is truly interested. When Apple first rolled out the lower cost eMacs (that's eMac not iMac) they were meant solely for businesses, schools, and government. However, many employee purchased them through their companies. Many times companies are willing to do things like this for their employees. However, it's not true for most. A lot of times you must be in a position in which you can convince your supervisor it would be benificial for them to do such a thing. Either that or you have to be in good with the person pruchasing the technology. Don't be so closed minded. Many schools do it as well as many companies. Hell, that's how I got my G3 iMac (the old ones not the new ones) when they first came out. This was back when I was doing tech support at American Fiber Systems. Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

	the reason why the comps built by smaller (none / 0) (#7)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 02:46:49 PM PST

	companies are cheaper isnt that they use used part or crappy parts (yeah well some do) but mostdon´t the reason is that the smaller companies doesnt design own boxes and doesnt have any agrrements locking them two just a few hardware producers.. and the taxes for their way of building them are lower in most countrys.. compaqw makes the worlds worst comps WORD!

	you forgot (none / 0) (#10)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 03:57:13 PM PST

	Most of these smaller companies doesn't spend millions on stupid cheesey commercials, billboards, and up to 5 2-page ads in every single computer, men's and electronics magazine possible.

	my only reply is (none / 0) (#13)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 04:56:26 PM PST

	WORD!

	Missing poll option (5.00 / 2) (#8)
	by The Mad Scientist on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 03:13:42 PM PST

	"All of them"

	what's with a the title changes lately? (none / 0) (#16)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 06:49:29 PM PST

	News for grown ups? More like site run by children who think they're grown ups.

	No apologies, detikon. (none / 0) (#20)
	by RobotSlave on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 07:20:31 PM PST

	We have a grown-up audience, and a grown-up expects the title of an essay to reflect the content and tenor of the piece. The fact that some of the diary-submitters are incapable of this most basic compositional requirement is regrettable, but fortunately for our adult audience, the editorial staff is willing to lend a hand and make appropriate revisions whenever necessary. © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	title (none / 0) (#23)
	by detikon on Mon Jun 24th, 2002 at 12:11:51 AM PST

	Gee so wouldn't have made a lot more since to change it to "PC makers should stop whining"? They are the ones whining after all. You would know that if you read the piece and the IDC study. But apparent'y you can't read too fucking well and have a problem grasping basic concepts. Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

	They're teaching RobotSlave how to be a dom. (5.00 / 2) (#21)
	by because it isnt on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 08:16:14 PM PST

	Who can blame him if he messes it up now and again? He's been a sub all his life, for goodness' sake. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Wow. (none / 0) (#18)
	by RobotSlave on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 06:53:40 PM PST

	So, let me get this straight. In your paranoid delusional world, the slowdown in home pc sales is "usually" attributed to the enforcement of copyright laws? Where on earth do you get your news, detikon? I'm not going to bother arguing the point with you, but I really am interested in where one would have to go to consistently read or hear claims like that. © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	what the fuck!?! (none / 0) (#22)
	by detikon on Mon Jun 24th, 2002 at 12:05:52 AM PST

	Where in the fucking blue hell did I say that was my belief? If you actually would have read the entry and IDC's report it's the PC MAKERS WHO ARE BLAMING THE RECORDING INDUSTRY. Although it could be considered a factor, especially if you have read the last few article in PC World regarding the subject, it doesn't mean it completely true. Public perception over the recording industry's anti-CD burner/MP3 player rants. Please point out where in the hell I said that "I" believed that was a reason. Sorry to have made you look like a fucking idiot making unfounded childish remarks. Perhaps you should stay in skule so day can lern u 2 reed gooder. Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

	Reading comprehension. (5.00 / 1) (#24)
	by RobotSlave on Mon Jun 24th, 2002 at 12:15:39 AM PST

	Let's have a very careful look at the sentence I typed back there, shall we detikon? "In your paranoid delusional world, the slowdown in home pc sales is "usually" attributed to the enforcement of copyright laws?" Note that I do not at any point say anything about what you personally happen think has caused the pc sales slowdown. Instead, I say that you believe the slowdown is "usually" attributed to the crackdown on piracy. And I want, very much, to know where you get the notion that this is a cause "usually" given by PC companies. Now, what's this you were saying about learning to read? © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	ahh yes (none / 0) (#27)
	by detikon on Mon Jun 24th, 2002 at 10:48:05 PM PST

	However you make the claim that in "my" paranoid delusional world. You got this where? I never made any mention that I believed that copyright laws are attributed to slipping sales. However, there are a few things to consider. Anyone who has purchased a CD which uses shoddy copyright protection knows those discs will not play on a PC CDROM. Those same discs may also have trouble playing on a regular CD player. People who have read recent articels concerning this may be waiting for newer devices which work better with copyright protection rather than finding out later that the device they just bought no longer works. I made mention that I can understand some consumers worries about how and when these devices will work in the near future. You seem to have an inability to grasp the fact that I wrote it could POSSIBLY be a factor. While a small one and NOT certainly NOT the only one it may still be a contributing factor. As I mentioned before you seem to have trouble grasping this concept and simply move from one extreme to the other. As for where I got this information I suggest you go back and read the first friggin sentence of the diary entry. That is unless reading is too much trouble. International Data Corporation (IDC) along with the Gartner Group are two of the most well repected technological research companies out there. Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

	Er, what? (none / 0) (#28)
	by RobotSlave on Tue Jun 25th, 2002 at 03:02:10 AM PST

	Actually, detikon, you did, indeed, "make mention" that "you believed" that slipping sales were attributed to copyright laws (and not, incidentally, the completely nonsensical opposite, which you, in your stupid, stupid, fury, posit). Proof: "The drop in sales of home systems are [sic] usually attributed to the recording industry's lashing out against Napster (which I can understand to a point), CD Burners, and MP3 players." --detikon Go re-read your own inane diary entry, detikon. Now, you've got a poll or two to point to. Are you completely out of the loop, detikon? Polls are commissioned by parties with vested intererests, and if the results of these narrow surveys reveal exactly what the sponsors would prefer, should we treat this as scientific proof? Please, have a look at the business pages of the major US daily papers for the past two years, and show me a single interview with a representative of a PC manufacturer that attributes the slowdown in PC sales to copyright enforcement. Just one would interest me. Of course, if you want to substantiate your delusional claim that PC manufactureres "usually" attrubute the recent slowdown in sales to copyright enforcement, you'll have to come up with more than one reference. In fact, you'll have to show that most explanations by PC manufacturers make this claim. You can't do that, of course, and you know it. You're basing your crazed, brittle worldview on a strange, hermetic, nerd-centric circle-jerk of nerds' "reporting," and I still want to know where the fuck you get your news. Can you manage that much, detikon? Can you accomplish a task so simple as telling us where you routinely turn to get your information? I didn't think so. And welcome back, Mr. "I'm through and finished with your web-site." You need us. You know it, and we know it. The sooner you begin to address you real needs here, the sooner you will find yourself on the path to recovery. © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	here we go again (none / 0) (#30)
	by detikon on Thu Jun 27th, 2002 at 04:19:53 PM PST

	Just goes to show how utterly FUCKING stupid you are. Once again, these are claims made by PC MAKERS according to the announcement made by IDC. IT IS NOT MY CLAIM OR MY OPINION. Do you understand now or do I have to draw you a picture? Maybe your getting all fucked up because of this: "I'm sure everyone has their own opinion and research to validate it. This just happens to be mine." That goes along with the final paragraphs, the first of which starts out with "It's my belief (speeling error fixed)..." Do you think you can get around that concept now? It is not MY claim nor MY opinion. They are claims made by PC MAKERS according to the IDC announcement made roughly a week and a half ago (according to the date of this posting). Maybe it's the section where I wrote "the recording industry's lashing out against Napster *(which I can understand to a point)". If you are having trouble with that one I am simply stating that I can understand the recording industries reasons for pissing and moaning about NAPSTER. Does this need to be literally beaten into you or what? I've been over this 3 fucking times already. Not MY opinion or claims but those made by PC MAKERS. If you still have trouble grasping this I suggest you ask your parents to put you into the special education classes because obviously you are fucking retarded. Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.*

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