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 Genetic Warfare and Matrilineal Cultures

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Oct 15, 2001
 Comments:
A matrilineal culture is one in which maternal heredity lines play a determinant role in the definition of social relations. For instance, such a relationship may be required even for membership in the culture in question; in such a social grouping, only if your mother was a member may you be admitted as a member. This turns out to have important consequences for warfare in this day and age.
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Among the hereditary information that all of our cells carry, there exists a form known as mitochondrial DNA (abbreviated as mtDNA). The name is due to the fact that this DNA is not contained in the nucleus of the cell, but rather, within smaller parts of the cell called mitochondria. The cell does not create mitochondria; they reproduce on their own.

More importantly, there is no equivalent for mitochondria of the process called meiosis, the process which creates sperm and egg cells for sexual reproduction. While a fetus receives roughly half of its nuclear DNA from each parent, the mtDNA comes only from the mother. This means that, while nuclear DNA mixes up information about both sides of the family for each organism, mtDNA provides a trustable record of the maternal line. Thus, it can be applied to groups where membership is determined by one's mother; being a member can be distinguished easily and uncontroversially by mtDNA.

This has important consequences for biological warfare. Only now are researchers trying to develop genetic weapons, which are intended to affect only one one group of people, based on their genes. But this is very problematic.

It has been a well known anthropological fact for many decades that there is no such thing as a "pure" race; more recently, thanks to the results of the Human Genome Project, we know even more: there is no such thing as a coherent concept of "race". All cultures are formed by individuals of mixed heredity. Genetic populations intermix with each other very extensively. While cultures tend to have some ideology of being a "race," all descended from the same mythical ancestors, this is never the case. Thus the prospects of inventing a weapon that can distinguish two ethnic groups from each other are very slim, and even more so when we talk about groups that have lived close to each other for thousands of years. For the two groups will certainly have mixed to a large degree, despite the strong ideologies they may keep about being separate "races". A "gene bomb" designed for one group will certainly kill many members of both groups. From looking at a person's genes, scientists can't tell which "race" this person belongs to; why should we expect an unintelligent weapon to do so?

This conclusion is just a smidgen premature, though. Although it warns us of not confusing ethnic group membership (which is cultural in nature) with genetic inheritance (which is biological), there is an important exception that can be brought into the picture. And, of course, this exception is the case of matrilineal societies, where as it happens, membership in the group is determined by the one kind of DNA whose inheritance matches up perfectly with the cultural rules for group memebership.

The crucial thing with this is that it allows any such group, if it is technologically advanced enough, to manufacture nanoweapons that can tell apart their own from all others, and thus don't affect them. With such weapons, they would be poised to take over the Earth. Their forces could attack indiscriminately, in close quarters, anybody who would oppose their plans for world domination. All other ethnic groups would be powerless to resist.

Clearly, any matrilineal society must be so for devious reasons, and represents a genuine danger to the rest of the world.

However, this is a double-edged sword, for matrilineal societies contain in their matrilineality the seed of their own destruction. Just as nanoweapons could be invented to not affect the members of such a society, they could be invented to affect only them. Thus, the solution to this threat is obvious. We must identify technologically advanced matrilineal societies and develop weapons of mass destruction which kill only members of said society.

This we must do as a bare minimum; otherwise, when the time comes, we will be unable to defend ourselves from their genetic weapons. However, it would be much preferable if more were done, in order to avoid such a situation in the first place. Thus, we must develop these weapons as soon as possible and use them to stop them from developing their own. Ultimately, in an advanced enough world, where the manufacture of these weapons involves technology generally accessible to everyday citizens (and given the great technological progress mankind has shown itself to be capable of, this can't be too far away), we must be ready to deploy these weapons. There is no other choice if we want a pluralistic world where diverse cultures live together in piece. It's either them or the rest of us. We must come together to fight this menace.

       
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so therefore... (none / 0) (#5)
by h on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 09:21:55 PM PST
> Clearly, any matrilineal society must be so for devious reasons, and represents a genuine danger to the rest of the world.

.. any matrilineal society has been keeping it's society "pure" for thousands of years, in expectation of nanowarfare aiding their innate desire for world conquest?

By manufacturing nanobots which target the aggressor's own kind, wouldn't we just succeed in obliterating all of humanity, as the nanobots would continue the killing regardless?

Wouldn't it make more sense to make "defensive" nanobots which target any nanobots unlike themselves? That way, well, mankind wouldn't vanish when some disgruntled Samoan scientist releases his pet project.

Beats me.

-h


Nice idea, but completely unfeasible (none / 0) (#8)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 11:12:52 PM PST
Nanobots are, by definition, far too small to effectively eliminate each other. It would be like trying to fight interstellar wars without leaving your home system. The relative distances and rapidly evolving battlefield topographies make science fiction ideas like this completely unworkable.

Remember, even in laboratories, sensors accurate enough to detect nanobots are immense in size. Imagine trying to build sensors for nanobot detection small enough to fit on a nanobot. I don't think it can be done.


Thank you. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by moriveth on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 11:26:51 PM PST
On the internet, one expects to encounter a certain number of Neal Stephenson-worshipping masturbators like h. (Merely a coincidence that "h" shares his letter with notorious nanotech junkie "hemos"? I think not.) But it grows tiresome debunking them, and I thank you for saving me the trouble.

As anyone with any grasp of science immediately realizes, nanotech is somewhere behind cold fusion (and only slightly ahead of HURD) on the viability scale.


indeed (none / 0) (#14)
by h on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 12:30:14 AM PST
I worship Neal Stephenson? I have nanotech-related auto-erotic fantasies and wish I was Hemos? Wish I could deduce such specifics from a single post.

Although you have reiterated my point for me - that anything related to nanotech is purely speculation and pointless intellectual drivel at its current developmental stage. So thanks.

-h


an objective observation (none / 0) (#15)
by moriveth on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 12:54:14 AM PST
Although you have reiterated my point for me - that anything related to nanotech is purely speculation and pointless intellectual drivel at its current developmental stage
I find it most fascinating how this suddenly becomes your position after Mr. T Reginald Gibbons eviscerates your original (and, one observes, not skeptical at all) post on the matter.


 
Thus (none / 0) (#13)
by h on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 12:29:26 AM PST
If we have the technology to create nanobots capable of targetting a particular DNA sequence, we will not have the technology to create nanobots to defend said DNA sequence. We also will not have the technology capable of detecting foreign bodies in said environment.

You're either an astonishingly experienced nanotech engineer, someone capable of predicting future technological advances 50 years ahead of the present, or, gasp, someone SPECULATING about said advances.

Spare me talk about things DEFINITELY happening in the future, be it interstellar war methodology or nanotechnology. I don't respect your omniscience.

-h


More speculation for you (none / 0) (#16)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 12:55:10 AM PST
In the case of attacking the human body, the nanotech works much like any pathogen. Millions of attacking agents, but relatively few successful hits. Introduce enough nanobots into a town and every person will get a large enough dose for a few cells to get hit. That's all you need to produce cancer. I suggest you look into the T-4 phage virus to see how something incredibly simple can take over cells. The only difference here, really, is that the nanobots have to contain a biological payload that only works on a particular strain of DNA. Given current advances in DNA technology, this isn't at all unlikely.

What is unlikely is sensors small enough to fit on a nanobot that can detect other nanobots over sufficient distances. Given the current state of sensing in real sized robots, this sort of technology is well mroe than fifty years away. Sensing today isn't particular accurate at the centimeter range, in most applications. For decent sensors with millimeter accuracy, expect to pay in the hundreds of thousands. Nanobot wars are the stuff of bad science fiction.


 
Do you think about these things? (none / 0) (#10)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 11:43:24 PM PST
"Wouldn't it make more sense to make "defensive" nanobots which target any nanobots unlike themselves?"

Sure, as long as only ONE group does this, you're fine -- but if anybody ELSE released their own "defensive nanobots which target any nanobots unlike themselves" -- well, do you THINK about these things?


that's......... the idea (none / 0) (#11)
by h on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 12:19:33 AM PST
Strange as it seems, the concept of a defensive nanobot is one that keeps the environment free of "unwanted" nanobots.

Let's look at the choice - nanobots which attack other nanobots, or nanobots which indiscriminately slaughter any members of an attacking race.

Whatever.

-h


Dude, listen, dude. Listen. Dude, listen. Dude. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 01:43:43 AM PST
Listen.

Dude,

Listen. Okay, see, here, group #1 releases defensive nanobots. Group #2 releases defensive nanobots. So group #1's bots and group #2's bots blow each other up -- so when group #3 releases a nano-plague to wipe people out, there's nothing to stop it! Because the useless "defensive nanobots" already tore EACH OTHER to bits.

Listen, dude: listen. Dude, listen. Listen. Listen.

Dude.


Oh my God! (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 02:03:24 AM PST
A triple-duder!


 
dude. (5.00 / 2) (#23)
by linuxrulez on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 05:13:31 AM PST
Dude, so, you mean, like, one atom in my sweater could contain an entire universe...and our entire universe could be just a single atom in some giant dude's sweater?


 
still (none / 0) (#35)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 11:16:31 PM PST
<i>.. any matrilineal society has been keeping it's society "pure" for thousands of years, in expectation of nanowarfare aiding their innate desire for world conquest?</i>
<p>Ok, ok, let's suppose for a second that it wasn't obvious that matrilineal societies were like this. Still, in virtue of their biology, it would remain a dangerous possibility. Why take the risk?


 
You could not be more right. (4.00 / 1) (#6)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 09:24:01 PM PST
The most well jnown and well equipped matrilineal society are of courde the Jews. Evidence of the sinister intent of these evil people can be seen from the dusty streets of Palestine, where their police gun down 12 year old boys, to the silver screens of Hollwood, where Jews (who run the whole town) conspire to poison the minds of the world with films like "Bandits". It is only a metter of time before they develop the sort of sophistcated nanodevices that will enable them to eliminate most of the human race, and enslave those few, sickly survivors whom their genetic weaponry "merely" afflicts with cretinism and acromegaly. Only when the men of foresight such as Heinrch Himmler, David Duke, and Osama bin laden are accepted as visionaries who had the courage to oppose the matrilineal menace with all their strength will humankind truly be on the path to a free, happy world.


Jew jew jew jew jew (none / 0) (#12)
by Hunsvotti on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 12:25:45 AM PST
Jews, the evil Jews, the cancer on the world! Let's kill them all because they are all evil (*EVERY* *LAST* *FUCKING* *ONE*)! They eat bugs on purpose! They are the boogeyman! They are ...Wait wait wait...

Man, someone must have put some kind of hallucinogens in my coffee. That there is some defective, addlebrained nonsense. Next thing you know, I'll be claiming that Anthrax's "Spreading the Disease" came out after 9/11/01 rather than 1985! Every person from a race is exactly the same and part of some vast conspiracy? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!

By any chance, are you related to B1FF?


Take your racism back to your heavy metal mosh-pit (none / 0) (#17)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 12:59:08 AM PST
Here, we respect the jews, despite their anti-palestinian racist tendencies. We do not need nazis like you calling for their slaughter. It damages the toen of the site, and your behaviour is adversely affecting the signal to noise ratio.


eh (none / 0) (#28)
by Hunsvotti on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 01:05:13 AM PST
I hope you don't mean to call me a nazi. I was lampooning that one poster's gibberish about how one race could be inherently evil.

I also maintain that I have never been *in* a mosh pit. :P


Your words are there for all to see (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 02:43:46 AM PST
Did you think I couldn't figure out how to read old posts or something?

"Jews, the evil Jews, the cancer on the world! Let's kill them all because they are all evil (*EVERY* *LAST* *FUCKING* *ONE*)!"

I'm sorry, but there's nothing you can say that redeems that sentence. Your racist attacks sicken me, and degrade the site.




I dunno... (none / 0) (#30)
by Frithiof on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 04:08:19 AM PST
I'll bet that if someone said they wanted to kill every last Muslim terrorist (or perhaps just Muslims in general), I doubt you'd get your panties all in a bunch like you are now.

of course, I don't support the genocide of ANY race...I was just saying this to demonstrate a remarkable hypocrisy in the comments made by some people.


-Frith

Why wouldn't I? (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 06:09:21 AM PST
I have in the past. I don't see what's changed since last time I fought racism online. You must have a very short memory span, I guess.


sorry... (none / 0) (#32)
by Frithiof on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 11:22:29 AM PST
it's kinda hard to tell one Anonymous Reader from the next


-Frith

 
One of my favourite expressions: (none / 0) (#33)
by FifthVandal on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 11:26:18 AM PST
"Irony Deficiency".

I think it applies here :-)


--- I was the fifth vandal on the grassy knoll!

I prefer... (none / 0) (#34)
by Frithiof on Wed Oct 17th, 2001 at 01:58:10 PM PST
"The ironing is delicious!" by Bart Simpson


-Frith

 
Yes, they are there for all to see. (none / 0) (#36)
by Hunsvotti on Thu Oct 18th, 2001 at 12:19:32 AM PST
Particularly, the second and third paragraphs, which you COMPLETELY IGNORED:

"Man, someone must have put some kind of hallucinogens in my coffee. That there is some defective, addlebrained nonsense. Next thing you know, I'll be claiming that Anthrax's "Spreading the Disease" came out after 9/11/01 rather than 1985! Every person from a race is exactly the same and part of some vast conspiracy? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!

By any chance, are you related to B1FF?"

Let me break it down for you. Pay close attention to this:

Every person from a race is exactly the same and part of some vast conspiracy? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!
Try again, Sparky!


 
Man, are you stupid or what? (none / 0) (#22)
by tkatchev on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 04:07:21 AM PST
I'm fairly sure that bugs are unkosher.


--
Peace and much love...




 
wait... (none / 0) (#25)
by Frithiof on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 11:15:10 AM PST
you forgot to mention that the Jews run the medicine industry. they teach the doctors to prescribe medications to patients when they don't need them, and they encourage pharmacists to lace their drugs with harmful elements, such as arsenic and cyanide, so as to encourage future visits and a steady stream of income. if you don't believe me, just ask any doctor; they will readily admit that they inflict illnesses upon their visitors so they can make more money off of them. it's an endless cycle and clear evidence of Jewish wickedness in our world.

it's also a well-know fact that They control the media and are working to warp the minds of our young children. don't believe me? just ask David Duke.


-Frith

 
There are always exceptions to every rule. (5.00 / 2) (#7)
by Craig McPherson on Mon Oct 15th, 2001 at 10:08:11 PM PST
While your idea to exterminate races that might be likely to practice genocide and other crimes against humanity in the future is admirable, there are many more factors involved in this issue. For example, mitochondrial DNA isn't always inherited from the mother -- in some cases (estimated to be anywhere from 0.1% to 5.0% of all conceptions), the mitochondria from the sperm cell overpowers the mitochondria from the egg cell, resulting in an individual who inherits his mitochondrial DNA from his father, rather than his mother. This is fairly rare, because the egg cell contains more mitochondria than the sperm and thus usually wins the "mitochondrial war" that follows every conception, but the difference isn't as large as you'd think -- sperm cells contain the highest mitochondreal density of any cell in the body, and thus stand a remote but real chance of winning out.

So upwards of 5% of individuals in a matrilinear society have their fathers' mitochondria, rather than their mothers'. This should certainly skew your margin of error a bit, inducing both a small number of false positives and a small number of false negatives. Most matrilineal societies (Islam, Judaism) also encourage polygamy, so a foreign man with unusually strong mitochondria could easily pass them on to several children of native women, causing the native children to falsely test as foreign. The sons who inherited their father's mitochondira would be of some concern, but the real issue would be the daughters who inherited the foreign mitochondria: not only would a native daughter of the foreign father incorrectly test as "foreign" on DNA tests, but so would her children, and all her grandchidren, and so forth. It could very well be impossible to tell who's "native" and who's "foreign" based on mitochondreal DNA at all.

I still maintain that our BEST BET would be to fund the research and development of a thoroughly-tested, scientifically-proven, magic petrification virus that turns only the teenage girls of the target race into stone statues. Younger girls would have to be petrified later, after reaching adolesence, and older women would be allowed to live normally (and encouraged to have more daughters), grow old, and die, but within a generation all the potential mothers will have been petrified, ending the matrilineal race's chances for further reproduction without having killed a single person. In addition to having eliminated the race without actually killing anyone, we'll have quite a lovely collection of statues. This would seem to be the most logical and peaceful solution, because it involves no killing (which the lame "international community" frowns upon) or bloodshed, and we wind up with a bunch of statues of teenage girls.


--
If you want to know why Lunix is so screwed up, just take a look at the people who use it. Idiocy.

fascinating (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by crayz on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 03:02:37 AM PST
Do you think, given our fine capitalist economy, that someone such as myself might be allowed to purchase one of these beautiful statues to umm, put in my bedroom^H^H^H^H^H^H^H art gallery?


m (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 03:17:12 AM PST
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


no! (none / 0) (#24)
by crayz on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 10:27:33 AM PST
I have been tracked through the forum-time continuum! Bastard!


 
You are absolutely correct. (none / 0) (#26)
by John Milton on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 01:01:30 PM PST
I'm glad to see such highly reasoned discourse on adequacy. It's heartening to see level headed debate about weapons of mass destruction. However, I have to partially disagree with you. While it may not be possible to get a 100% accurate bio-weapon, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. The best approach would be to a craft a two part delivery system. The first germ would recognise victims based on mitochondrial DNA. That germ would start producing an otherwise harmless protein. The second germ would be keyed to recognise genes common to the target race. That germ would create its own proteins that, when combined with the original, would be quite fatal. Neither the first germ nor the second would be fatal alone. It would only be effective in the case of a positive identification. Once we develop an effective two stage system, it would be practical to wage our war against these matrilineal societies.


-John Milton

 
Hmmm. Interesting, but not a major problem. (none / 0) (#27)
by em on Tue Oct 16th, 2001 at 01:11:39 PM PST
So upwards of 5% of individuals in a matrilinear society have their fathers' mitochondria, rather than their mothers'. This should certainly skew your margin of error a bit, inducing both a small number of false positives and a small number of false negatives.

Well, that means that one exterminates 95% of the society, and some number of members of other societies whose father was in that society (and thus are potential sympathizers). Seems like an overall gain, to me. It should accomplish the primary goal, which is to stop these societies from producing their own genetic weapons.
--em
Associate Editor, Adequacy.org


 

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