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 Nobel Prize for Irrelevance: How Wrong I Was !

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Nov 27, 2001
 Comments:
Guardian reports the journal "Human Immunology" has asked people to remove from their latest issue an article finding Jews genetically practically the same as Palestinians.
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My sarcastic reaction: "Whew! I'm so glad that's been cleared up finally! Now we can all stop being angry at each other and get on with living side by side peacefully". I further suggested the scientist ought to recieve a Nobel prize for Irrelevance for this finding.

As it turns out, I couldn't have been more wrong apparently. Somebody thinks this is big news enough to pressure the journal to fire the editor, remove her from the board, retract the article. All because they disagree with some of the political language of the article and not the actual findings.

This has got to be a big anti-Semitic plot by Jews against ourselves to make us look retarded and petty. Who ever said Jews are supposed to be clever and shrewd? I give you exhibit #1 of international Zionist incompetence.

       
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But jews are different populations themselves? (none / 0) (#1)
by nobbystyles on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 09:39:52 AM PST
I mean the Fashodas are africans, the Sepherdics are more middle eastern and Ashkenazis are mixture of European, Khazar and middle eastern.

I would expect Sphardics from arab countries to be quite similar to Palestinians. But I am suprised that the other Jewish people also are similar...



 
Hrm... (none / 0) (#2)
by Electric Angst on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 09:52:14 AM PST
Perhaps they're worried about the evidence supporting the theory that the Jewish people were never held in Egypt, that the entire Moses story was just PR spin and that their history was pretty much liken any other tribe in that area at that time...


--
In the dark times, will there still be singing?
Yes, there will be singing. There will be singing about the dark times. -- Bertolt Brecht

No it was the words "colony" and "c (none / 0) (#7)
by Inden on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 10:39:05 AM PST
The objection in the article was to the description of what the Israelis call "settlements" as "colonies" and what the Israelis call "refugee camps" as "concentration camps".<p>
It was the "casual" attempt to compare the Shoah history with that of the Palestinians that makes Jews see red. Jews don't like to be compared to Nazis even "carelessly".<P>
The "colonies" word is less annoying but still loaded with anti-Israeli meaning. The authors protestations of "innocence" are not credible given his level of education and sophistication.<P>
Read the newspaper article.


Yes... (none / 0) (#9)
by Electric Angst on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 11:30:23 AM PST
I know. I was just interested in a more controversial take on the article. This is, after all, the most controversial web site ever.


--
In the dark times, will there still be singing?
Yes, there will be singing. There will be singing about the dark times. -- Bertolt Brecht

 
Actually, (none / 0) (#10)
by tkatchev on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 11:48:47 AM PST
Actually, the vast majority of European Jews are descendants of the Khazar tribe of north-central asia. The Khazars were not in any way related to the Hebrews, neither by bloodline nor by history. It is simply one of history's weird flukes that the Khazar tribe decided to convert to judaism en masse -- most likely due to political reasons, with Christian Russia pressing on them from the north and muslim turks pressing on them from the south.

At the time, it was a purely political move. The Khazar state was short-lived, but the Khazar diaspora that formed after the destruction of their nation-state actually went on to form the bulk of Europe's judaic communities.

Strange but true. So in fact, this means that most European Jews are in fact not descended from Abraham, and cannot claim in any legitimate sense to be the "chosen people".




--
Peace and much love...




Please Provide Footnote Materials (none / 0) (#14)
by Inden on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 07:38:04 PM PST
This is a very alternative view of diaspora origins. Considering that the Jews spread through the Roman empire long before the Kazars converted this kind of revisionist theory requires some documentation sources.


History (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 05:50:32 AM PST
You can find some facts here.


Thanks for the Koestler Link (none / 0) (#21)
by Inden on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 08:38:36 AM PST
I had remembered looking at his book but didn't remember much else. Thanks for the link. Guess I'm a Kazar until further notice then.


Genetics, Khazars, Jews and Palestinians (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 06:45:31 PM PST
So, let me get this straight:

The most of the Jews decend from the Khazars.

Firstly, after reading the Koestler link, I must say that his estimate on the number of Sephardi Jews is woefully innaccurate, considering that they make up about 60% of Jewish population in Israel ALONE, (.6 of 6 million is 3.6 million, not the 500 000 Koestler gives) forgetting the Sephardi Jews living in France, Quebec (a large population) and elsewhere.

So, now, the matter at hand. Assuming Koestler is pretty much correct, and this data on the Palestinians and Israelis having very similar genetic backgrounds, what can we say?

Well, this implies that the Palestinians have more in common with Khazar (ie. Caucasian) people than with other Arabs. This would follow as well from the fact that the Ottoman Empire did transplant many people into Palestine at various times. This would therefor imply that the Palestinians are not Semitic people either, and thus, have no claim to Israel or Palestine.

Now, the horrific irony of this conclusion is not lost on me.

However, let's say that the figure of 3.6 million Sephardi Jews is correct. "Sephardi" is an innaccurate term, reffering to "Spanish" Jews. The term Sephardi has always actually meant all Jews NOT living in Europe (excluding Spain and Portugal). That is, all jews from Spain, down to Morrocco, and east, clear across to China. Yet, these Jews STILL have genetic makeups surprisingly similar to Palestinians.

So, either way, any sort of racially based claim to Israel is pretty much invalid.

A solution? Well, I'll say this much:

The most constructive thing I can think of (which, of course, will be blown to pieces by the religious and inflexible nutbars that frequent this site) is that both sides have to move past their rightful claims of victimization. A slow, negotiated and balanced solution must be reached, one which will guarantee Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State, and guarantee Palestinian rights to a state as well.

Oh, you want details? Sheesh...


Details of agreement are at Gush-Shalom (none / 0) (#23)
by Inden on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 09:00:09 PM PST
<a href="www.gush-shalom.org">details</a>. As for how to get past the current war and lack of trust and political brinksmanship, manipulation and cynical gamesplaying. Nobody but the shadow knows.


 
They're both chidlren of Abraham (none / 0) (#3)
by Adam Rightmann on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 09:52:51 AM PST
so it certainly makes sense that they would be genetically related, gollywhompers, they even look alike.


A. Rightmann

 
I'm feeling lazy. (none / 0) (#4)
by RobotSlave on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 10:12:19 AM PST
At 150+, it's just not worth the effort.


© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

Laziness (none / 0) (#11)
by Inden on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 02:24:41 PM PST
If you are truly feeling lazy, I suggest you avoid commenting on my diary entries entirely. You never have anything worthwhile to contributue. You only care about quantity and not quality so just darken someone else's doorstep if you please.


I love you, Inden! (none / 0) (#12)
by RobotSlave on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 03:30:59 PM PST
"You never have anything worthwhile to contributue. You only care about quantity and not quality"

You not only miss any point that I might be making, but can be relied on to consistently put your foot in your mouth, as well.

There are words for your condition. Medical words. You'd better go out there and find them, before I use them first. Hop to it!


© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

I Await Your Diagnosis Doctor RobotSlave (none / 0) (#13)
by Inden on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 07:30:05 PM PST
Where did you study medicine? Are you licensed to practice anywhere? I don't mind. Talk is free. Let me have your diagnosis.


Sigh. I knew you wouldn't do any work on your own. (none / 0) (#15)
by RobotSlave on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 07:39:23 PM PST
OK.

Here's my offer: I'll give you the words if we can make a contract whereby you are not allowed to use them on this site once you have them.

Deal?


© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

Definately a game you are playing (none / 0) (#16)
by Inden on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 08:06:24 PM PST
What sort of game are you playing here. Is it because I am a newbie? I don't make agreements I would have no intention of keeping so never mind.


Your loss. (none / 0) (#17)
by RobotSlave on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 08:25:49 PM PST
It's an open offer, feel free to take me up on it any time.

Hey, did you notice back there that you had a fairly obvious opening to turn this thread back on me by going out and googling up some esoteric words describing positive medical conditions, like unusually high intelligence, astounding sexual capacities, or senses extending beyond the usual human range?

I didn't think so.


© 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

That's because I'm interested in content (none / 0) (#19)
by Inden on Wed Nov 28th, 2001 at 03:10:12 AM PST
I care about content, not nerdy put-down points. My ego is gratified by intellectual exchange not the thrill of competing to see who can "win".


 
your diary entries (none / 0) (#24)
by nathan on Thu Nov 29th, 2001 at 07:06:37 AM PST
I bow before the incomparable erudition, might, sexual vibrance, literary composition, and hearty, invigorating flavour of your diary, Inden! It is truly the ambrosia of the gods that lightens the heart and gratifies the senses.

It's so superior and so different from what they have over at servile-cercoebuses.org.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
of course (none / 0) (#5)
by alprazolam on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 10:15:05 AM PST
the Palestinians aren't God's chosen people, so any article that says they are equal to Jews should be killed.


 
That's Not the Point! (none / 0) (#6)
by Inden on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 10:31:26 AM PST
The point is not whether or not it is significant whether Jews and Palestinians are genetically identical. That's not the problem! That's what I mean by a Nobel Prize for Irrelevance.

It's culture and politics - nurture not nature - that separates the brothers. After all, the Arab and the Jew are said to be descended from two different sons of Abraham from two different mothers - Rachel (Jew) and Hagar (Arab).

The genetic differences between all the existing inhabitants of the earth who are homo sapiens are all meaningless when it comes to human nature, education, culture, political manipulation. That's the bloody point for whining out loud!


 
For Those Not Reading the Original Article (none / 0) (#8)
by Inden on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 10:46:41 AM PST
I shouldn't have imagined anyone would actually take a look at the article. Here's what you need to know for this to make more sense.

The objection in the article was to the description of what the Israelis call "settlements" as "colonies" and what the Israelis call "refugee camps" as "concentration camps".

It was the "casual" attempt to compare the Shoah history with that of the Palestinians that makes Jews see red. Jews don't like to be compared to Nazis even "carelessly".

The "colonies" word is less annoying but still loaded with anti-Israeli meaning. The authors protestations of "innocence" are not credible given his level of education and sophistication.

Read the newspaper article.


 
All humans are pretty much the same anyway (none / 0) (#18)
by First Incision on Tue Nov 27th, 2001 at 09:35:35 PM PST
I'm not expert in anthropology, but genetically, all humans are pretty darn close to identical anyway. As so many people are fond of saying, humans share approximately 99% of their genetic code with chimpanzees. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but think about it. The VAST majority of your DNA is going towards producing the proteins that form all kinds of boring stuff like red blood cells, bones, snot, enzymes, organs, etc, etc, etc.

We (mammals in general) all have to get the same basic stuff done. We have to breathe, eat, urinate, produce milk for our young, reproduce, run around, fight off infection, etc, etc, etc. The DNA to encode this stuff doesn't need to be too different from species to species. You can bet it's even less different from human to human.

Of course Jews are practically the same as Palestinians. Blacks are practically the same as Whites. There may be some small differences in how much pigment gets put into the skin, average height, hair texture, facial shape, disease susceptibility, and other little nitpicky things. But when it all boils down to it, were are all the same species, and the differences don't add up to a whole heck of a lot. Culture is the whole reason people are fighting.
_
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Do you suffer from late-night hacking? Ask your doctor about Protonix.

 

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