Where the Depravity Begins

Nursery rhymes lead children to making stupid, rash, ill-thought out decisions that ultimately lead to lives of sexual promiscuity, broken marriages, drug-infestation and general unhappiness. In short, nursery rhymes are pivotal to our society unwittingly leading the future generations - our children - into a disaster zone.

You may think that I am over-reacting - surely those little ditties that are sung to our little loved ones as they lay their heads to sleep are completely innocent, and many of you will contend that I am trying to be overly politically correct, however I really think I need to show to you just how dangerous some of these rhymes are. Below, I present a group of popular nursery rhymes followed by my reasonable understanding of their true meanings. You can then decide for yourselves whether we should continue to allow our children to be subjected to their filth - this is no urban myth a la "Roger the Cabin Boy" from Captain Pugwash; this is real.

Jack and Jill
Went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water.
Jack fell down
And broke his crown
And Jill came tumbling after.

We begin with promiscuity - young men and women being allowed to go around unaccompanied. There is no mention as to whether Jack and Jill are courting, but I suspect that this sort of immoral behaviour (young couples disappearing off without parental consent) is common in many communist dictatorships. There is also an implication of child labour - why were they going to fetch the water? No doubt Jill's pimp and Jack's crack dealer was forcing them into the deal. The evidence to support this is quite clearly how unsober Jack was to 'fall down' and 'break his crown' (the crown refers to his head and not a majestic/golden adornment for our American cousins). He was either clearly drunk, or smoking some sort of 'waccy-baccy'. Jill also seemed equally 'sloshed'

Up Jack got
And home did trot
As fast as he could caper
Went to bed
And plastered his head
With vinegar and brown paper

You may notice there is no concern for Jill's welfare here - she is left at the bottom of the hill to rot. Perhaps Jack was so drunk that he forgot Jill was with him. He certainly must have been rather out of it to start plastering his head with vinegar and brown paper - perhaps this rhyme is supposed to prepare the children of the UK for the decline in the NHS and make it acceptable for poor healthcare to be doled out on the poor, the drunk and the addicts.

The next rhyme I noticed had other meaning as well as just being ill-advised was the 'Owl and the Pussycat', a popular nursery rhyme supposedly detailing the wondrous love of an Owl and a Cat. The first verse goes thus:

The Owl and the Pussy-cat went to sea
In a beautiful pea green boat,
They took some honey, and plenty of money,
Wrapped up in a five pound note.
The Owl looked up to the stars above,
And sang to a small guitar,
'O lovely Pussy! O Pussy my love,
What a beautiful Pussy you are,
You are,
You are!
What a beautiful Pussy you are!'

Straight away we see several problems. In this day where humans of all creeds, class and colours 'get it on' we may accept a social tolerance to many types of relationship. However, are we really supposed to expect inter-species breeding is a good thing? The net is awash with bestiality. Infesting our children's minds with this sort of muck is not going to reverse the situation.

Secondly, the whole idea has clearly not been thought out properly - going to sea is a dangerous activity at the best of times. Suggesting that going in a small boat with nothing more than some 'honey and plenty of money wrapped up in a five pound note' is dangerous. Young sailors should be made aware that more provisions should be taken aboard a boat and that customs and excise should be informed if you enter a new country. If you turn up as the owl and pussycat do, you are almost certainly going to be arrested on suspicion of drug smuggling - perhaps the underlying story here is that the CIA want the profession of smuggling to be seen as 'romantic' so they can encourage youngsters to move cocaine out of Columbia. It still remains dangerous however when conducted in this manner - I dread to think what would happen if a storm broke out as there is no mention of life jackets being taken aboard on this voyage. Lastly, the vulgarity and sexual innuendo of the owls references to 'pussy' is disgusting, and not worthy of any captain of any vessel. It gets worse though, as the second verse shows:

Pussy said to the Owl, 'You elegant fowl!
How charmingly sweet you sing!
O let us be married! too long we have tarried:
But what shall we do for a ring?'
They sailed away, for a year and a day,
To the land where the Bong-tree grows
And there in a wood a Piggy-wig stood
With a ring at the end of his nose,
His nose,
His nose,
With a ring at the end of his nose.

OK, so the cat is a slut who will get married to any old thing - even a suspect drug dealer who isn't even of the same species. This is dangerous stuff. What is worse is the drug reference - the Bong Tree - and a pig who has defaced himself with a body piercing. Something that is all too common in our modern society with its loose morals. For reasons of space, I will not repeat the last verse here, suffice to say they use the pig's ring as the sacred token of marriage (quite disgusting, and obviously anti-Semitic). They also dance by the light of the moon - a reference I believe to drug and rave culture where young people dance late into the night. If you can't see the dangers here, you're an idiot.

Next though, I discovered other nursery rhymes that lead young misguided parents into giving their young children awful lessons in life. For example:

Humpty Dumpty sat on a Wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great Fall,
All the King's Horses,
All the King's Men,
Couldn't Put Humpty Together Again

This is not only anti-Royalist and a disgraceful slur on Monarchy, but shows how dangerous risk-taking activities are. Why did Humpty Dumpty fall? I suspect the hidden message is that Humpty was a crack smoker and was 'high on life' - the fact that his end was so pathetic may not get through to some kids. In this day and age where so many wish to be famous, the fact that this buffoon has been granted infamy through his dangerous acts may make some wish to follow him. However, the worst Nursery Rhyme yet that I have encountered is that of Old Mother Hubbard:

Old Mother Hubbard
Went to the cupboard
To fetch her poor dog a bone;
But when she came there
The cupboard was bare,
And so the poor dog had none.

This is animal neglect, and poor house management. Young women should be taught that to allow their homes to fall into such a state is a disgrace. To not even have enough food for the dog is something worthy of prison. However, the story goes on:

She took a clean dish
To get him some tripe;
But when she came back
He was smoking a pipe.
She went to the grocer's
To buy him some fruit;
But when she came back
He was playing the flute.

The dog, quite clearly, is taking drugs. The 'pipe' is either a bong or a crack pipe. A short time later the poor animal is so off its tits it's playing a flute - this is a story of real-life ghetto and social welfare existence and is happening all over our country right now today. What this story has to answer for is shocking. The story however, has no happy ending, merely a warning to the children who wish to follow the dog's example:

She went to the baker's
To buy him some bread;
But when she came back
The poor dog was dead.

A sad tale. Quite clearly, the dog had over-dosed. So easy to do when you have paws, and not opposable thumbs like us superior human beings, having been blessed by God.

She went to the undertaker's
To buy him a coffin;
But when she came back
The poor dog was laughing.

Ahhh, a sick joke, no doubt April Fool's or some other satanic ritual. I suspect that the dog at this stage may actually be undead, as he most likely practised Wicca or Satanism.

She went to the hatter's
To buy him a hat;
But when she came back
He was feeding the cat.

The dame made a curtsey,
The dog made a bow;
The dame said, "Your servant."
The dog said, "Bow wow!"

If this story isn't about the subservience to the Devil himself, I don't know what other purpose it could serve. It is a disgrace that such devil worship should be permitted into the minds of our children. I would like to suggest that we write to our politicians now to have such disgraceful 'ditties' outlawed and protect our children. There are many other nursery rhymes that show ill judgement and should not be given to young minds. If other readers wish to make suggestions, I would be grateful however I now wish to make some short comments about other rhymes I have discovered that are in the height of bad taste and clearly suggest a life of immortality to our children:

Baa, baa, black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir,
Three bags full;
One for the master,
And one for the dame,
And one for the little boy
Who lives down the lane.

A racist term on the first line, and then a sheep that is quite obviously paying off bribes to the local Mafioso, a prostitute and his rent boy. Also shows poor judgement with regard to the sheep understanding production cycles and market economics.

Hickory, dickory, dock,
The mouse ran up the clock.
The clock struck one,
The mouse ran down!
Hickory, dickory, dock.

Cowardice. Pure and simple cowardice.

Dance to your Daddy,
My little babby,
Dance to your Daddy,
My little lamb.
You shall have a fishy
In a little dishy,
You shall have a fishy
When the boat comes in.

Quite obviously paedophilic prostitution - who allowed this into the public domain as being acceptable? I have even found new nursery rhymes in the course of my research (like the one here that are beyond even innuendo. Write to your politicians NOW! Stop this filth!

	Send the authors to jail. (5.00 / 4) (#1)
	by because it isnt on Wed Apr 17th, 2002 at 10:56:12 AM PST

	Writers of children's verse are obviously all depraved maniacs. For example, I was reading in this week's Private Eye about some of Enid Blyton's early verse: "The Chocolate Cock" by Enid Blyton. Once there was a piece of chocolate in the shape of a cock. The chocolate cock stood right in the very middle of a sweet-shop window, and all the children came to look at him. He was very proud of himself indeed. "I am the Chocolate Cock!" he crowed. "I am the Chocolate Cock! I am the handsomest bird in the world, for I am the Chocolate Cock!" He was marked a shilling, and none of the children that came to look at the cock could afford to buy him. They just stood and looked at him. (From "The Talking Teapot and Other Tales" by Enid Blyton [London, 1938]. Spotter: Michael Moon) adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	I don't get it (none / 0) (#7)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 08:28:03 AM PST

	A chocolate cock -- I don't get the 'bad thing'. The Oxford 'Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English' Second Edition of 1963 (yes, I know it's very old, but what I'm trying to prove still stands today) states 'cock' as 'male bird of the domestic or farmyard fowl', a rooster. A chocolate rooster is a rooster made out of chocolate, a (sometimes) impressive "piece of art" and therefore standing in a window (and feeling proud of himself). I don't get what could in this case hurt children, unless of course it is misinterpreted but I doubt that was the intent when it was first made up. I could be misinterpreting your post, and if I'm doing just that feel free to tell me. The following is a transcript of exactly what the dictionary says: def. 1: 1. (used alone) male bird of the domestic or farmyard fowl. 2. bird: pea~; ~-sparrow; ~-robin. ~a-doodle-doo n. the crow of the ~(def. 1); child's name for ~ (def. 1). ~-and-bull-story, foolish story that no one should believe. ~-crow n. dawn; daybreak. ~-fighting n. fighting by game-~s (see game, def. 6) as a sport for onlookers. live like fighting ~s, live on the best possible food. ~ of the walk (school), person who dominates others. def. 2: 1. tap and spout for controlling the flow of a liquid or a gas (from a pipe, barrel, etc.) 2. lever in a gun; position of this lever when it is raised and ready to be released by the trigger: at half (full) ~, half ready (quite ready) to be fired. def. 3: (VP 1, 10 with up) 1. turn upwards, cause to be erect (showing attention, inquiry, defiance, etc.): The horse ~ed its ears. The horse stopped with its ears ~ed up. He ~ed his eye at me, glanced or winked at me knowingly, or raised his eyebrow. ~ed hat n. triangular hat, pointed front and back, worn with some uniforms. *knock, (sb. or sth.) into a ~ed hat, knock shapeless, or so that recognition is impossible; beat thoroughly. 2. raise the cock of (a gun) (see cock def. 2) ready for firing. def. 4: small, cone-shaped pile of hay. v.t.*pile (hay) in ~s.

	You must be very gay. (none / 0) (#8)
	by because it isnt on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 08:35:36 AM PST

	After all, you have such a bright and gay dictionary. `nb: 'gay' means 'happy', obviously. look it up in a 1940s dictionary` adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	overreacting (none / 0) (#9)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 09:02:26 AM PST

	The point I was trying to make was that interpreting the rhyme that way is clearly overreacting. Do you really honestly think that the author meant anything else than a rooster? And yes, 'gay' means 'happy', but it also means 'homosexual' and therefore some people are offended by being called by the word.

	My own point, (none / 0) (#12)
	by because it isnt on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 09:40:05 AM PST

	in posting the excerpt in the first place, was that period materials can become hilarious if elements of its language have different meanings in modern times, as 'cock', 'pussy', 'fanny', 'gay', 'faggot', 'homo-', etc. admirably demonstrate. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Big throbbing hairy cocks (none / 0) (#13)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 11:48:19 AM PST

	I'd always thought that the word "cock" had been used to refer to the male member for many years. I supposed that this was why USians of the Victorian era invented the word "rooster" to refer to cockerels, along with coining the terms "white meat" and "drumstick" to avoid the embarrasment of saying "breast" or "leg" respectively when serving the Thanksgiving turkey.

	A fine article (none / 0) (#2)
	by anti filidor on Wed Apr 17th, 2002 at 01:38:40 PM PST

	However, I would like to add a point. In the little miss muffet rhyme, you quite rightly call attention to the dog's pipe smoking. However, later in that verse is a reference to "playing the flute," which clearly means "playing the skin-flute," or, to be crass about it, "giving a virtuoso blow-job." This sort of filth is especially worrisome to parents who also have dogs. Children should not be led to believe that starving an animal will earn you sexual favors from the desperate animal, as this will only lead to confusion later in life.

	thank god you found that out (none / 0) (#27)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 10:55:27 AM PST

	because really, as a 20 year old male, i never would have picked that out of the story. i mean, really, flute CLEARLY stands for skin flute because it obviosly isn't being created in your little warped pathetic mind which vacates itself whenever actual thinking must be done. search hard enough and i bet you find something sexual about my recent comments. dumbass.

	duh (none / 0) (#29)
	by nathan on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 11:21:04 AM PST

	You are obviously a repressed homosexual. Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	i see. (none / 0) (#30)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 02:38:28 PM PST

	because i sarcastically attack morons, i'm a repressed homosexual. you're logic is outstanding!

	so is you're grammar. (5.00 / 1) (#31)
	by nathan on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 03:07:01 PM PST

	Now, to business. Your choice of verbs is revealing here: pathetic mind which vacates* itself...* To vacate is a verb meaning 'to empty,' and as such is normally associated with the bowels rather than the mind. Anal fixation; immature sexual development/fetishes. Next up. your little warped pathetic mind... How do you insult someone? By insulting his maturity and healthy development. Why are these things so important to you? Because of developmental immaturity. Immature sexual development; anal fixation. Most revealing of all:i bet you find something sexual about my recent comments. Prodigal child requesting punishment from father figure to correct what he perceives as his perverted, dirty behaviour. If only it were so easily done! Get into therapy, and do it now. Now! If you don't you will certainly wind up as some sort of terrorist (I can see you're already well on the way.) Get help, cost is no object, stand up, go NOW, get up from the wretched computer and DO IT NOW! All best, Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	From the sci.skeptic FAQ: (none / 0) (#36)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 05:48:57 AM PST

	They laughed at Copernicus. They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at Krusty the Clown. Therefore Krusty the Clown is a great scientist.

	Drugs. (none / 0) (#18)
	by hauntedattics on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 06:49:13 PM PST

	Also, I don't do drugs either - well, OK maybe a bit of smack, a bit of weed, some speed, some coke, all in moderation of course. But doesn't everybody* these days?* Um, no. SQUARE PEGGY

	Diceman's name (none / 0) (#4)
	by Mr Somebody on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 04:39:12 AM PST

	I think he be named after Luke Reinhart's (have I spelt that right?) brilliant novel of the same name. This makes me smile because Diceman berates the humpty Dumpty nursery rhyme for: 'showing how dangerous risk-taking activities are'. Surely sir, as a fan of the fictional(?) diceman's extremely risky, chance based, anarchic adventures, you'd be all for Humpty's behaviour, no?

	Such a sad person (none / 0) (#34)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 08:01:02 PM PST

	I am not the person who you were first replying to but I have to add this. This is so sad, a supposed adult twisting words around to create a sexual meaning out of everything. The way I see it Nathan, you have a disturbing obsession with sex to find so many vague meanings. I think you are the one who needs therapy to help you get your mind out of the gutter before you become some kind of sick sexual prowler. Do your self and the rest of the world a favor and take a step back and look at your posts. Then see how sad of a person you really are. Turn off your computer and get a life after getting help. Please don't bother picking about my word choice and getting some sort of perverse pleaser out of since I don't have the time to sit here with a dictionary to find the perfect words to satisfy your anal nature. This is my first time to this site and my last after seeing what kind of sick and sad people are here taking themselves way to seriously.

	so this is what my kindness gets me. (none / 0) (#35)
	by nathan on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 10:58:20 AM PST

	I try to help someone who's obviously wretched, miserable, and a repressed homosexual, and I am mocked? Ah well, they laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers... Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	sounds like they are such skeptics (none / 0) (#37)
	by nathan on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 04:53:26 PM PST

	That they don't even believe in Sagan or in attributing quotes. Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	Sick-minded conservatives (none / 0) (#3)
	by gohomeandshoveit on Wed Apr 17th, 2002 at 04:42:25 PM PST

	To begin my comment, I must first call attention to DiceMan's screen name. If he is so worried about the decay of our country, he should look no further than the gambling his name is obviously propagating. I suggest a change in your screen name for all the children who didn't grow up quite yet who visit this site, albeit illegally. (This is a site for grown-ups). Next, I believe that these nursery rhymes are perfectly resonable, and actually promote the learning of our little ones. For instance, they learn to rhyme well, which has math connections in that carefully measured meter leads to many mathematical patterns. For one to respond this subject of nursery rhymes this vehemently, I must suggest the possibility of a traumatic experience as a young child, such as molestation, has occured to DiceMan. Another example of the child trauma would be the perverted and drug-related comments in his article. He must have turned to drugs as consolation for this traumatic experience, and the molestation is an obvious link to his current perverted twist on harmless nursery rhymes. I say that you conservatives need lighten up and realize that we liberals need to have fun too, and that drugs aren't the only way we do it. This is your last warning: LAY OFF OUR NURSERY RHYMES!!!! Step One: Read my screen name. Step Two: Act upon what you just read.

	Well... (none / 0) (#11)
	by DiceMan on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 09:36:08 AM PST

	Firstly, the name is not related to gambling, (see another post on this page), but I do happen to gamble as it happens. I also happen to make quite a bit of cash out of it. I'm freeing money from it's capitalist bookmaker prisons and spending it on beer and the fight for the banning of all literature I don't agree with. A noble cause, I'm sure you'll agree. Your argument around rhymes improving mathematics, is I am afraid, poppy-cock. The only way to get a child to learn maths quickly is through good use of the cane or belt. Your liberal attitudes suggest that you obviously hug trees and think that 'home-schooling' is a great idea. I pity your children for the filth you no doubt subject them to every day by forcing nursery rhymes down their necks at every oppurtunity. And why shouldn't they visit this site? They have to learn what sex is all about sometime, and this form of natural exploration is far safer than the enforced boy-sex-brothels you would probably endorse - you're so conservative, you're probably a facist or something. As for your comments about my childhood. I am afraid that once more you are mistaken. I was never molested as a child - I actually was the one who suggested the sex with my parents and sister. No trauma involved there. Also, I don't do drugs either - well, OK maybe a bit of smack, a bit of weed, some speed, some coke, all in moderation of course. But doesn't everybody these days? Your conflicting attitudes show you are obviously disillusioned. I pity you. I also suggest you read Luke Rhinehart's book to provide a structure to your schizophrenic behaviour.

	... it's not my fault... (none / 0) (#10)
	by DiceMan on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 09:25:49 AM PST

	.. the dice told me to berate him. OK, you're right, my screen name is indeed based on the novel by Luke Rhinehart. I do often play dice games as they're fun, but you'll be pleased to know I haven't followed the books example by raping or murdering anybody. I do often try to include an option for sex though. :-) As for Humpty Dumpty's actions - well, the dice didn't tell him to do it. Therefore he's just a moron, taking high risks and then the rhyme berates the King's Army for being incompetent. This sort of rubbish should be kept away from young children. Now, if we got all our kids to do everything based on the roll of a die... well, now that would be interesting.

	now you're talking! (none / 0) (#21)
	by Mr Somebody on Fri Apr 19th, 2002 at 04:54:23 AM PST

	"if it's a six, I'll paint dad's car!" Aye lad, I see where you're going, the old 'Ring a ring a roses' song has pretty gruesome beginnings, all about bubonic plague, doncha know? I always hated that 'Oranges & Lemons' song as a kid, especially the decapitation bit at the end! What are we trying to teach our kids with that one? 'become a cockney axe murderer, my son'. On the other hand, (here comes the science bit)maybe these rhymes are just there to get kids into language, so they can play with it, & have fun with it. Good old Dr Seuss's books didn't make a great deal of sense half the time, apart from The Sneeches, but kids love em!

	Further investigation (none / 0) (#5)
	by Ben Reid on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 06:59:03 AM PST

	Ladybug! Ladybug! Fly away home. Your house is on fire. And your children all gone. All except one, And that's Ann, For she has crept under The frying pan. Blatant promotion of arsonist behaviour, mocking at the loss of innocent young lives, and to top it off, a sexist remark about the place of women in the household. Disgusting. Rub-a-dub-dub Three men in a tub, And how do you think they got there? The butcher, the baker, the candlestick-maker -- They all jumped out of a rotten potato! 'Twas enough to make a fish stare. Need I say more? An anthem for the homosexual movement if ever I saw one, gay orgies followed by suggestive rhetorical questions aiming to titillate a young mind (how the hell else do you think they got there? They're poofs). No wonder the fish was staring, though, we must ask, if this is what it takes to get the fish's attention, what message does this send to our kids? Wee Willie Winkie Runs through the town, Upstairs and downstairs In his nightgown. Rapping at the windows, Crying through the lock, "Are the children all in bed? For it's now eight o'clock. Glorifying transsexual behaviour, derogatory nicknames, promotion of rap music and voyeurism. Just despicable. Yes people, is sad but true, liberalist debauchery is being drilled into our kids at a young age.

	Grammar! (none / 0) (#6)
	by because it isnt on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 07:03:12 AM PST

	how the hell else do you think they got there? They're poofs You mean pooves. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Pooves - fantastic! (none / 0) (#23)
	by incunabula on Fri Apr 19th, 2002 at 11:18:48 AM PST

	I shall just have to add this to my collection of similisexualist euphemisms. I'm sure it will be but a few days before it is mature enough to work the fields... i

	It's mature enough. (none / 0) (#25)
	by because it isnt on Mon Apr 22nd, 2002 at 02:31:55 AM PST

	It's been in Private Eye magazine for the last 40 years. Poove power! adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	yes, you're right (none / 0) (#28)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 11:05:14 AM PST

	at 2 years old i realized i could not wait to be a cross dressing homosexual because of what these nursery rhymes said. and hey, let's call a guy a transexual because he wears a night gown which everyone happened to wear back when this was written, but as long as you're working hard at proving your moronic points, let's ignore fact. dumbass.

	Pity, you just dont get it do you. (none / 0) (#14)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 02:56:12 PM PST

	Nursery rhymes are for young children (0-3 years old maybe a little older), how many children that old understand that pussy is a cat, let alone anything else! The only people these rhymes may subvert (if they do that at all) are people that are older enough to understand the double meaning behind some words, i.e. teenagers and adults. Who are already set in their ways and don't really give a shit about nursery rhymes anyway. Does it occur to anyone that it is not the nursery rhymes that are trying to subvert children, but the pathetic influence today's parents have over there children. If you have children and they are falling for such tripe (which I sincerely doubt) then I say it reflect more on you being a terrible parent and not bringing your child up correctly, then it does on the child. A child is a sponge for many years, what they soaks up in experience depends very largely on their parents. So for god sake stop looking around finding something to blame (I'm mean, nursery rhymes for pity's sake!) and start accepting the fact that if your child turns out bad, you as a parent are in a large part responsible. Accept it, cope with it and do something about it instead of blaming it on society (which is merely a by product of our own actions, so therefore still our own fault anyway) or nursery rhymes, or this or that. Simple Equation for those that don't get it. 1) How a child acts in life depends largely on their early childhood upbringing. 2) During a child's early childhood up bringing their greatest influence are their parents. 3) Put 1 and 2 together and STOP PASSING THE BLAME for you own poor parenting ability. (That should give you all something to flame me over! Truth hurts doesn't it.)

	No, you are the one who doesn't get it. (none / 0) (#15)
	by Uncanny Vortex on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 03:33:23 PM PST

	I think you are the one missing Diceman's original point. Apparently you don't think it matters what trash we feed into our children's brains during those impressionable years. stop looking around finding something to blame (I'm mean, nursery rhymes for pity's sake!) You may find Diceman's idea to be far-fetched, but I for one think he has some valid points. It's a known fact that there are hidden, sometimes subliminal messages in our fairy tales and nursery rhymes. If you allowed yourself to be more open-minded, you would realize that removing these twisted, seemingly innocent rhymes from schools and homes is not such a bad idea, after all. Call this a flame if you will -- I term it a wake-up call to open your mind to other points of view. -- Uncanny Vortex

	Good point (none / 0) (#17)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 06:14:30 PM PST

	A Perfectly valid point. My point is that no subliminal message is going to work unless the recipient understands the concept of the message in the first place. I.e. a subliminal message telling me to go jump off the Golden Gate bridge is useless if I have never heard of the Golden gate bridge (I know subliminal messages aren't used like that, but it gets the idea across). Which gets back to my original point of if you bring your child up properly then these messages will have little effect. It is the parents responsibility for the child, not society.

	Humpty (none / 0) (#16)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 03:37:53 PM PST

	"Humpty Dumpty sat on a Wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great Fall, All the King's Horses, All the King's Men, Couldn't Put Humpty Together Again. This is not only anti-Royalist and a disgraceful slur on Monarchy, but shows how dangerous risk-taking activities are. Why did Humpty Dumpty fall? I suspect the hidden message is that Humpty was a crack smoker and was 'high on life' - the fact that his end was so pathetic may not get through to some kids. In this day and age where so many wish to be famous, the fact that this buffoon has been granted infamy through his dangerous acts may make some wish to follow him." -------------- I'd just like to point out that this is supposed to be a metaphor for a British monarch (who's name eludes me), to imply that his downfall was iminent, or something to that extent. It's not techically Anti-Royalist, more like anti-pissy-ass king. And are you saying that this one smoked crack? I wonder..

	Anti Royal (none / 0) (#19)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Apr 18th, 2002 at 08:54:31 PM PST

	I believe (fill in the missing/incorrect bits here) the rhyme was about King George during the Flanders campaign. Leading this infantry and cavalry in Flanders he marched then to the enemy, got his royal ass soundly beaten, and then a hell pell retreat back to England. It wasn't until Wellington landing in Portugal that the English were "put back together again". This is my own hazy remembrance of this rhyme it may be wrong, or at least wildly incorrect in parts, but then that makes it no different to anything else read on this site.

	Isn't that The Grand Old Duke Of York? [n/t] (none / 0) (#20)
	by because it isnt on Fri Apr 19th, 2002 at 03:00:27 AM PST

	adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Richard III (none / 0) (#22)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 19th, 2002 at 10:28:02 AM PST

	I'd just like to point out that this is supposed to be a metaphor for a British monarch (who's name eludes me) Richard III is the name of the monarch you're looking for. It's sad that someone went to the trouble of crafting a fine and politically incisive nursery rhyme like Humpty Dumpty when some people are unaware of the target of his satire. In fact, the only current reminder of Richard the Third's shortcomings as king is that his name has been immortalised in cockney rhyming slang as a euphamism for "turd" (AKA "feces", for the benefit of USian readers)

	My understanding... (none / 0) (#24)
	by hauntedattics on Sun Apr 21st, 2002 at 08:21:28 AM PST

	of Richard III is that he was a fine, upstanding king whose good name (and dead body) was brutally, cynically and unjustly dragged through the mud by his unlawful, bend sinister successor, also known as Henry VII. It's amazing what an effective smear campaign can do.