The Politics of Envy

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Poll

Votes: 12

The Politics of Envy

Author:

dmg

Topic:

Diaries

Posted:

Feb 25, 2002

Comments:

It seems as if Europe, and in particular, the United Kingdom, has developed a culture of envy.

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No doubt there is something about Europeans that makes them want to bring everyone down to a mediocre level. The so-called 'tall poppy syndrome' is a way of life over there.

But it seems you cannot even spend your own money now in the UK without getting fired.

I honestly cannot understand how these sackings can possibly be legal.

What is more depressing is the gleeful tone in which the press reports this. Here we have five hard working, successful investment bankers who no doubt worked extremely long hours, and made sacrifices for their careers - penalised for the 'crime' of having lunch.

Barclays Capital should be ASHAMED of themselves. They paid the bonusses. What did they expect their hard-working employees to do with it ? Give it to charity ?

The British culture is fundamentally one of class envy. Here we see it in all its anti-meritocratic glory.

I just thank God I don't live there!

	An important point. (none / 0) (#1)
	by because it isnt on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 06:04:21 AM PST

	You may have noticed that the headline in the linked article is "Bankers 'sacked' over £44,000 meal". Now, I know that our famous sense of humour is too subtle for an all-American American such as yourself, Mr DMG, but the quote-marks around 'sacked' means that the term is pejorative - i.e. they have not actually been sacked, but promoted. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	No. (none / 0) (#2)
	by dmg on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 06:55:19 AM PST

	I'm afraid it is you who are wrong. They have been sacked. No 'ironic' quotation marks here. Five hard-working bankers have lost their jobs due to the class-based hatred that the British public has for success in any shape or form. Hopefully the bankers will sue the restaurant if indeed it was responsible for losing them their jobs. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Trustworthy sources (none / 0) (#3)
	by because it isnt on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 07:05:30 AM PST

	As a Brit, I find it quite ironic that you choose to cite the Financial Times and the Daily Mail as 'evidence' of the sacking. These two news organisations are quite famously corrupt, and are printing the bank's chosen cover story. Auntie BBC is the bastion of truth here. As it is funded by the people and not by private interests, it can fearlessly reveal the truth. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Again you are wrong (none / 0) (#4)
	by dmg on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 07:21:19 AM PST

	I am getting tired of having to correct your inadequate comments. The Financial Times is a well respected news source, as is the Daily Mail. Anyway CNN is carrying the same story. I find it amusing that you do not address the fundamental issue that I raise here, preferring to make outrageous allegations against respected news sources. What is it with you Brits ? You sure are a fucked up race. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Your blinkeredness is astonishing (5.00 / 1) (#5)
	by because it isnt on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 07:50:53 AM PST

	The Financial Times is a well respected news source, as is the Daily Mail. Hardly. The FT is losing circulation and needs all the cash it can get. The Daily Mail is a well known fascist propaganda rag. Anyway CNN is carrying the same story. Yes, and as you can clearly see, it refers to the bankers as "'sacked'", which is correct. I find it amusing that you do not address the fundamental issue that I raise here, preferring to make outrageous allegations against respected news sources. With all due respect, your position as an international observer does not offer you the same insights as the British public. These bankers - 'sacked' or otherwise - have never had it so good. They are well-entrenched members of the financial community, and are basically members of an elite, invulernable club. Next thing you will be telling me that Martin Sixsmith has been 'sacked'. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Yet again I need to correct you. (none / 0) (#7)
	by dmg on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 11:46:18 AM PST

	Correction #1: The circulation of the FT is irrelevent. It is a widely respected international financial journal, on a par with the Wall Street Journal. Correction #2: The Daily Mail can not be considered Fascist. Right wing perhaps, but the days of its support for the Mosleyites have long gone. These days it supports the Conservative party, who in many ways are less Fascist than "new Labour". Correction #3: Martin Sixsmith has been sacked. Finally, I don't see your obsession with the quotation marks. These people have been kicked out of their jobs for the simple crime of spending their own money. I realise Socialists and Communists such as yourself have a problem with personal property, but until you reds organise a revolution, the law of the United Kingdom and the Queen still grants her subjects the right to spend their own money. Please, don't force me to correct you any more, its getting embarrassing for you, and tedious for me. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Dear Mr. dmg, sir: (3.00 / 1) (#12)
	by RobotSlave on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 02:25:46 PM PST

	It would appear that Mr. "because it isn't" has, in his mind, successfully trolloped you. If you had taken my previous advice to heart, then you would see that Mr. Isn't has been employing some sort of British irony of journalistic integrity, and though I don't quite understand it, It would appear that he is having a bit of "fun" by forcing you to correct him again and again. It's all just a bit of a joke, you see. Mr. Isn't knows perfectly well that his nation is a festering time bomb of class hatred, but rather than face that bleak reality, he prefers to play silly word games or compose "music" on his "Amiga." You can almost pity the poor frightened little man. © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

	In his mind maybe. (5.00 / 1) (#17)
	by dmg on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 04:24:57 PM PST

	But then, in their minds, most British men don't think of themselves as homosexual. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Closet PC (none / 0) (#24)
	by because it isnt on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 02:57:49 AM PST

	I understand that bigoted Americans, such as yourself, have been praying to God to make you freethinking. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	You have it totally wrong. (none / 0) (#18)
	by walwyn on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 05:06:39 PM PST

	These people were not sacked out of envy but to protect the renumerations of their superiors. For bank employees to be flaunting their wealth, little more than a year after a hefty round of branch closures, which may cost the bank some large accounts, and even angered their advertisers, is a PR disaster, and likely to lead to calls for a reduction in directors salaries. The so called fat-cats are simply protecting themselves.

	You should spare your "corrections" (none / 0) (#26)
	by because it isnt on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 03:20:41 AM PST

	You make such outrageous suggestions, I am compelled to make a point-by-point rebuttal, even though this may be "playing into your court". Correction #1: The circulation of the FT is irrelevent. It is a widely respected international financial journal ...and Arthur Andersen is a widely respected international accountancy firm. Face it, the FT needs the cash. Correction #2: The Daily Mail can not be considered Fascist. The Mail is not fascist by virtue of its professed political support (it is just biding its time until a sympathetic government is installed), but it is fascist by its regular appeals to bigotry and hatred, and its pretense that it leads some sort of "moral high-ground" when it demonises the members of our community that need help the most. Correction #3: Martin Sixsmith has been sacked. Absolutely untrue. As the honourable MP for Tyneside North has made clear, he resigned. He was originally 'resigned', like these bankers, but given his recent allegations, he is now unlikely to slip quietly back into the civil service. These bankers have been an embarrasment to their employers and must be seen to be punished. It is highly unlikely that this is actually the case, as they are members of the "Old Boy network". I cannot stand by and let this myth that they've actually been fired be perpetuated by the likes of you, who would not know the truth if it came and slapped you round the chops. adequacy.org -- because it isn't

	Yeah (none / 0) (#6)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 08:54:52 AM PST

	I'm sure if someone spent $90 000 of your coin during a recession, you'd be 'envious.'

	You miss the point entirely. (none / 0) (#8)
	by dmg on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 11:50:11 AM PST

	The money that was spent came from the pockets of the individuals concerned. They were SPENDING THEIR OWN MONEY. How would you like it if you were sacked for the 'crime' of spending part of a bonus given to you by the same employer that now wants to sack you ? The British are truly a class-ridden envious and jealous society. I was talking to a guy I met in a bar in London, and he said that people there are afraid to park their cars in London because they would get scratched with keys by jealous "common people". When will Britain wake up and realise, it's OK to be successful and having money is nothing to be ashamed of ? time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Perhaps the US should intervene. (4.00 / 2) (#10)
	by elenchos on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 11:59:52 AM PST

	It seems we have a nearly textbook case of an oppressed minority being threatened with ethnic cleansing by an out of control regime. I think the public would be fully behind sending peacekeeping troops there to provide some stability until things right themselves. The exit strategey is important. The last thing we want is to get sucked into having permanent bases on some godforsaken island in the middle of the Atlantic. There should be a six month timeline, and then we're out of there. The key will be a willingness to use maximum force, rather than dither around for years on end. I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	Huh? (none / 0) (#14)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 03:47:43 PM PST

	Well, huh?

	Is it so foreign to you... (none / 0) (#19)
	by elenchos on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 06:43:57 PM PST

	...to have the courage to stand up and fight for what is good and decent? We here in the US don't sleep well at all knowing that those whose only crime is having the character to earn a good living are being hounded to their deaths by angry, insane mobs of mad English pesants. And we are willing to do something about it. That's just how we are. Sorry. I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	Dreams dreams dreams (none / 0) (#23)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 02:46:19 AM PST

	We Europeans can sleep quietly. I can't recall one example of the USA standing up and fight for what is good and decent unless forced (example: Pearl Harbor), or for what their corporations say is good and decent (example: United Fruit and Guatemela).

	Interesting. (none / 0) (#31)
	by hauntedattics on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 11:05:32 AM PST

	I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'good and decent,' but I didn't see either the EU or any U.S. corporation clamoring for American intervention in on behalf of the Albanian Muslims in Kosovo. (Note to aggrieved Slavs and Clinton-haters: this post in no way states that I supported the U.S. intervention in Kosovo. Please read it again before you flame me. Many thanks.)

	The politics of preconceptions (none / 0) (#9)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 11:57:12 AM PST

	You are revolted by the misfortune of these 5 men, sacked by their bosses for having spent their own money. This is understandable. But I don't see the relation with "politics of envy" or a "culture of envy", general in Europe, particular in UK, which existence I have never perceived. What is perfectly perceptible, from that post and some of your previous posts, is that you have anti-european preconceptions. Why?

	Look, I've experienced it. (none / 0) (#11)
	by dmg on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 12:11:06 PM PST

	As you may have read from my earlier articles, I have travelled extensively, and spent quite a significant amount of time in London and the United Kingdom. What became clear to me after about a week there was that the culture of England is anti-intellectual and steeped in envy of anyone who dares to work hard and become successful. They have this perjorative term for such people. They are known in the UK press as Fat Cats. British senior executives lag far behind their counterparts in the United States, and yet anytime a director or a bond trader gets paid for their efforts, the press goes on the offensive claiming that they don't deserve their hard-earned remuneration. This is clearly an envy culture. The thing with people having their cars scratched with keys is another example. I hate Europe because I hate Communism, Socialism and Fascism. Europe currently seems to have taken most of the worst aspects of all three systems and synthesized them into the political system from hell! time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Wow! Is there something you love? (none / 0) (#15)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 03:49:24 PM PST

	I don't understand how you don(t love us europeans, because we are good. I know we are good.

	it's alright for you... (none / 0) (#35)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 06:02:00 AM PST

	you are right in some points, but the fact remains that Britain is still burdenned by it's ridiculous class system! Is it the politics of envy to say 'down with the monarchy', that disfunctional familly of IDIOTS that are supposed to be a shining example to the rest of us? I would gladly welcome US intervention here, a daisy cutter on Buckingham palace would be more than welcome, then we hunt the rest of the aristocracy down with horse & hound! Maybe after shaking off these parasites, the UK's psyche may be a little healthier! ok, we wouldn't get as many foreign tourists, but after September 11th, we don't anyway - it's the perfect time comrades! storm the barracades!

	dear mr dmg or kiddo dmg (none / 0) (#13)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 03:11:25 PM PST

	why do you even care? Europe apart from US practice something called common sense 1: we dont let 16 year old kids by weapons and make them able to express their anger in massacres. 2: we have a sense of moral and since the only moral in US is to hate the filthy body you cannot argue that. 3: we don´t drive around in cars made in our copuntry with rumanian parts japanese electronics and argentinian leather toting with shotguns calling ourselfs patriots. 4: we have overcome natinalism and are induvidialists hence we don´t judge britain as a nation only the responsible 5: we care for our people thats why we have free healthcare a healthy people is a healthy nation USA isnt a healthy nation and definetly don`t have healthy people

	Well. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
	by dmg on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 04:22:48 PM PST

	At least our education system teaches us how to spell... time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Easy (none / 0) (#28)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 06:59:03 AM PST

	I knew there would be some comment about his spelling. Your education system may have taught YOU how to spell ENGLISH, but it hasn't been a success with all Americans, and you should stop thinking too that anybody on earth has some duty to speak and write a correct english, american english. You don't know how this guy learned english, you don't have a clue how his country's education system learned him to spell his native language, and you should remember that in Europe, where you said you travelled a lot, it is a minority that has english as native language.

	Of course you knew. (none / 0) (#29)
	by dmg on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 09:40:07 AM PST

	I knew there would be some comment about his spelling. Of course you knew. The reason being that the spelling was clearly atrocious. you should stop thinking too that anybody on earth has some duty to speak and write a correct english, american english. The official language of adequacy.org is American English. you don't have a clue how his country's education system learned him to spell his native language And I care even less. See previous point. I do not give a flying fuck whether someone's native language is English or not. When someone spells as badly as this, it calls into question their intelligence causing me to discount anything they may have to say. It's a question of standards. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	Stupid (none / 0) (#32)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 01:20:26 PM PST

	I thought you were clever. You are exactly the friendly American everybody loves around the world.

	Yeah (none / 0) (#33)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 01:26:46 PM PST

	You damned Europeans who read english but don't know how to write correctly go away. And you dyslexic people follow them. And you fags, I mean brittons, stay, but no more snobbish ways: write center and not centre, neighbor and not neighbour, defense and not defence.

	Not tall poppies (5.00 / 1) (#20)
	by Ernest Bludger on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 07:06:12 PM PST

	Alterntaviely the investment bankers in question were 'sacked' due to their unbelievably poor investment decisions vis a vis wine at the Petrus restaurant. I mean, imagine forking out almost 12,000 quid for a '45 Ch. Petrus Pomeral!! Don't they know what the mark-up on that vintage was. Puuhhleeaasssee. They would have found far better value with a Ch. Lafite-Rothschild '38 or a Cheval Blanc 1901. God, or a Ch. Margaux. Or even something from the Penfolds Grange Hermatige line (sure, this wine doesn't have the years behind it of some of those snobby Bordeauxs, but the upside is you're not drinking a French wine - or, heaven forbid, a Napa Valley one). It sounds to me like like they were doing the opposite of the "I'll have a bottle of your second-cheapest chardonnay, please", and were punished accordingly. Bet they asked for HP Brown Sauce with their meal.

	Just an expensive resturant (none / 0) (#22)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 08:53:33 PM PST

	A investigation on google for "1945 Petrus Pomerol" brought me these two links. First off, Petrus Restaurant's wine list. From the sound of it this was the restaurant the banker's dined in, as it has the same prices on the wines (at least of the Petrus variety) and is in central London. Another interesting link. This site is selling a bottle of 1945 Petrus for $6500, which is roughly £4600 (im too lazy to find the exact exchange rate =) ). So yes, that resturant is charging quite high prices for wine that can be bought cheaper elsewhere, but exclusive restaurants in London are always expensive anyway, I imagine they have quite high overheads and their customers can afford it. -- Nick way too habit forming

	Make it stop, please. (5.00 / 1) (#21)
	by jvance on Mon Feb 25th, 2002 at 08:16:20 PM PST

	Thanks to you, I can't get that song out of my head! -- Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

	Small flaw (none / 0) (#25)
	by SpaceGhoti on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 03:14:10 AM PST

	I have only one problem with the news article. It doesn't mention whether or not the bankers used their own money, or charged the wine to Barclays. This is a minor but important distinction. If the men charged the exorbitant cost of the wine to Barclays, then I feel their dismissal was entirely in order. If they paid for it out of their own pockets, Barclays was out of line. The article only mentions "...the meal was viewed as inappropriate at a time when the City was trying to present a more sober face..." without mentioning whether or not the men had acted improperly. Only that they consumed a remarkable quantity of expensive wine. Therefore, I'll agree with your sentiment only if someone can clarify whether or not these men were sacked for buying wine out of their own pockets (even if it was on company time). A troll's true colors.

	Some of the other articles, (none / 0) (#27)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Feb 26th, 2002 at 06:12:02 AM PST

	linked to in above comments, make it clear that they spent their own money.

	Once more... (none / 0) (#36)
	by SpaceGhoti on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 03:53:14 PM PST

	The only ethical issue that I can figure in this is whether or not the bankers charged the exorbitant cost of the wine to Barclays, or if they paid out of their own pockets. Thanks to a CNN link supplied in a post, we discover that the bankers paid it themselves and did not charge it to Barclays (this bit of trivia was suspiciously lacking from the original news article listed). So, were the bankers getting outrageously (yet stylishly) drunk on company time? It was a business meeting held at dinner, and they waited until they had successfully concluded business. Once the contract was signed, they were on their own time. Again, no foul to the company. They were fired for celebrating on their own time, creating an image that reflected negatively on Barclays? Bullshit. As much as I hate to say it, I must agree with dmg. Barclays was out of line, and I hope they lose millions in a lawsuit to the injured former employees. And yes, I can keep re-posting longer than you can zero me out. A troll's true colors.

	I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
	by nathan on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 06:16:24 PM PST

	In fact, a friend of mine used to work as an investment banker by day, but he was a seamy cum-guzzling gutter-slut of a male whore by night. When his company found out, they fired him. Prolly because he wouldn't put out for them. Fuck the Man. He's just keeping you down. Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	Doesn't surprise me in the least. (none / 0) (#39)
	by dmg on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 09:16:04 PM PST

	You would not believe some of the stories I could tell you about tier-1 Investment Banks and their employees. I remember at a certain well known bank at least three of the bond sales team all worked for the same 'high class' escort agency. Another guy had a nice second income from his (company sanctioned) cocaine dealing. Another employee I was acquanted with successfully embezzeled around $15m and absconded to Paraguay. Fact is, investment banks attract a certain kind of character. One that puts financial gain above almost every other priority. time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration. -- MC Hawking

	it figures (none / 0) (#40)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 10:11:02 PM PST

	I knew I was in the wrong line of work.

	which one? (none / 0) (#41)
	by nathan on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 10:17:19 PM PST

	Investment banking, or cum-guzzling gutter-slutting? Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	I'm confused (5.00 / 1) (#42)
	by jvance on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 10:49:28 PM PST

	They're different careers? -- Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

	I count (none / 0) (#43)
	by nathan on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 10:54:01 PM PST

	three distinct obvious jokes to be made at this point. Nathan -- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	Please enumerate (none / 0) (#44)
	by jvance on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 11:01:08 PM PST

	I can't think of any. I'm afraid I've shot my wad. -- Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

	make that four (nt) (5.00 / 1) (#45)
	by nathan on Wed Feb 27th, 2002 at 11:09:29 PM PST

	-- Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

	I agree too (none / 0) (#46)
	by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 28th, 2002 at 01:55:26 AM PST

	European (but not british), I don't see what is that culture of envy dmg is speaking about. But I think this situation is a shame, and yes, I hope too they lose millions in a lawsuit to the injured former employees.

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